They don't work for it though. There is no correlation between work and reward. A film star or hedge fund manager does diddly squat compared to a coal miner.

Yeah, Scandinavia gets a bad rap for its governments. There are a lot of safety nets, but a lot of freedom in other ways. A lot less corruption as well. Plus the oil money from Finland helps them. Taxes are higher in some ways, lower in others.

There is an automatic assumption that safety nets = lack of freedom, and while that's true on a micro basis, looking at all the military spending the US does in its place, drug war, etc..., you can see why they might be even freer than the US in many ways. And in many ways, their versions of taking away freedom is far less offensive than ours.

If we totally ignore talent and education I agree. Avg education for hedge fund manager and coal miner please. So are you saying that we shouldn't reward the risk taking the HF manager incurred by going to school and forgoing easy coal mining money?

With your example to you propose we should pay doctors and garbage men the same? If so what will happen when doctors realize they have no financial incentive to forgo the money they could earn instead of throwing it away at med school?

LOL @ assuming effort level = work production level.

Hedge fund managers aren't talented it's legalised theft and they just come from rich backgrounds. Likewise there's a lot of nepotism in the film industry. Someone as ugly and nuts as Liza Minnelli would have ended up as a waitress if her parents were coal miners.

Nic Cage tho

Its really really lol to think what hedge fund managers and film stars do isnt work. Like even if you dont really respect them as people in general you have to realise they get paid an absolute ****load because they do things the average person literally cant do.

There is to some degree truth that there is nepotism in the film industry because it is based around making personal connections and networking so being the son of Will Smith means his son is the new karate kid or whatever but at the same time the vast majority of film stars come from relatively normal parents who work outside the industry and its not a closed shop where you have to be second generation or that you dont also have to be really good to get to the top. Talent rises and connections only get you so far.

How is what HF managers not require talent? In what way is it theft? I think you may be confused on what HF managers do. I'm not a huge fan of Liza as I don't generally enjoy stand up comedy, but she definitely has talent.

I favour more equality of outcome not total equality.

Conservatives care about the average. Conservatives, by getting richer themselves, are raising the average, ergo the poor are better off. Liberals care about the median and the minimum.

They dropped us in the brown stuff in 2008 ! It is very naive to believe that they get there on merit. Some hedge funds are just started by rich individuals.

She doesn't do anything that lots of others couldn't do given the opportunity. Nepotism is rife within the film industry. You only have to look at the names of the stars.

It's somewhat logical then? Please explain what you mean, I've never heard anyone claim something like this TBH.

So more of a equal outcome than an equal opportunity, gotcha. Wait nope still don't really get, what do you mean.

Ya isn't the military one of the few things specifically cited as a legitimate govt concern by the founding fathers?

Not really. Small portion of the population that always votes one way.

I think they should roundly get ignored the way Obama ignores his base.

You used the word us implying you use a HF manager. Who do you use?

From what I've seen many investors are well above their '07/ '08 highest mark (and also their highest mark EVER). Thanks mostly due to taking the advice of investing professionals. Thoughts on this?

The reason I dismissed it is because of my belief that it is a service the govt provides that is useful and helpful to all, unlike a lot of government services.

Isn't the most important part of the system the ones who pay for it all? The rich snobs that go around and pay taxes and ****.

Show your work.

Seeing as useful/helpful is one thing but I'm not sure how that would lead one to say 'it's not really part of the government'.

I don't think that's a very small portion of the population at all. For as much as we like to talk about swing voters, I'm pretty sure that studies on the subject have suggested that the fraction of so-called swing voters who really do vote somewhat unpredictably is quite small. The idea of billing oneself as open-minded and beyond the intellectually feeble game of party politics is appealing - thus a lot of people do it, even when it's actually a very poor descriptor of how they really behave.

Not sure how to prove that I believe something besides pinky promising you that I believe it. Are you arguing that military spending isn't necessary or that other services provided by govt (paid by the rich/ hard working) are helpful to all?

Why most political debate misses the point. Most conservatives aren't opposed to wealth redistribution, if they were they'd support zero taxes or at best poll taxes. Arguments for conservatism and liberalism (especially on economic matters) use the rhetoric of libertarianism and socialism despite almost invariably being used to argue that the optimal size of the state is a few points smaller or bigger, respectively, than whatever the status quo is.

I originally said something along the lines of conservatives want small govt then it was pointed out that often conservatives don't want to cut the budget of the military. I overlooked conservatives want for military support as I look at it as something that is helpful to all Americans (right or wrong).

So yes I overlooked the military and no I don't really believe that conservatives always want every part of govt smaller than it already is, but just smaller govt as a whole.

They are used by pension funds so they are gambling with pensioners' money. The richest hedge fund manager I saw on the list was 87 years old. I cannot believe that he is worth the millions he gets every year. He prob just sits in his office doing jack. I'd do that for £100k a year.