The main difficulty for the left in communicating its ideas is that most people have a set of assumptions so far removed from reality that it is really impossible to have a conversation.

Here, you talk about freedom of speech like it is a given. It has never existed for all practical purposes.

Newspapers and other media outlets depend on advertising. Without four-page corporate colour supplements they go under. So they won't run stories which offend their corporate clients too much.

So, for example, the Daily Telegraph noticeably sat on the HSBC banking scandal for over a year. We know that happened because the finance editor quit in protest and stated publicly this was happening repeatedly: in most cases we won't ever know.

You think we have free speech. This is because the idea has been drummed into you from an early age. It is a noble idea. But it doesn't exist any more in a capitalist state than it does in a dictatorship. In fact the control mechanism is far more effective and insidious than the crude methods dictatorships use.

I have to write something article length to explain one misconception you have that most of the public share: that's one of the reasons why it is impossible for a far left candidate to win, even in France where political radicalism is arguably strongest.

I agree, freedom of speech is a bit of a myth. It is true that Western democracies have more freedom of speech than dictatorships like North Korea, but it is far from absolute freedom of speech.

Everyone conforms to a sort of "socially accepted norm". If you express certain views, you will get so heavily ostracized, you effectively can't air those views in public. Some extreme views can even get you arrested. Hence, in reality, you don't have freedom of speech.

The internet allows for greater freedom of speech, because of anonymity, but even on the internet there are rules. There are certain things you can't say on internet forums, for instance, without getting banned.

Also as the post above me states, companies and people have financial interests that constrain them to express their true views.

you guys have ruined this thread. maybe keep it focused on the massive election taking place next weekend instead of on whether freedom of speech is a myth.

In relevant news: Le Pen gained two points in the polls because Mélenchon wont take a position and huge numbers of Mélenchonbros are deciding to abstain (fascists are bad, but bankers are bad too!).

I think we finally hit peak stupid and she wont go much higher, but this election needs to end soon.

Says the guy who was trying to derail the thread with BS about Corbyn and the US.

The trend in the polls looks worrying, especially given that the debate seems imo to be a freeroll for MLP:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinio...E2.80.93Le_Pen

It hasn't moved much on Predict it though and Betfair looks even better.

Trend? The election is nine days away and Macron is up between 18-20%. Besides Macron stating he wants to submit the French people to ISIS he's going to win. Maybe Le Pen can make it 55-45 if she luckboxes.

Yah, I mean the polls would have to get down to 53-47% before it would be time to really worry. Brexit remain was up like 48-46% and Wisconsin was the only swing state where Clinton was polling with more than a 3.5% lead that she lost.

(((bankers))). This election STINKS.

le pen fading a bit on betfair. out to 10 now. i havent seen any new polls, so idunno if there's a good reason for it. she does seem to be a mess on the euro.

varoufakis and piketty also endorsed macron if that matters and mélenchon seems to have come close, so maybe that helped him a bit with the left. maybe it's mostly just about running out the clock at this point.

Debate is on tomorrow. Macron is going to crush her.

It's on wednesday and I just hope he doesnt screw up dramatically.

Today's Opinionway rolling has him back to 61% so that's nice.

Le Pen plagiarized a speech by Fillon

lol

incredible

Gotta wonder who that's more embarrassing for - Le Pen for plagiarizing Fillon, or Fillon when he realizes that a fascist thinks he worth parroting?

She's using the same strategies as Melania Trump

Melania at least had the excuse of not being a native English speaker. It's a bad excuse but she still has it. What's MLP's excuse?

Melania LaPen gonna win now?

Not a native English speaker, worked once already.

They've said it was a 'wink' at LR voters, which I think makes no more real sense in the original French than it does here translated.

Seems the explanation is that Fillon had someone who used to be mates with Le Pen writing speeches for him. That guy has now denied being back with Le Pen, but evidently she (and he) can't be bothered to do more work for key campaign speeches than dust off years old notes. What a shower of idiots.

lol that debate

She got crushed. Plain and simple.

Awful debate, good result.

She just gave an interview saying that Macron lied a lot (lol) and directing people towards social media for fact checking. It looks like there will be a big fake news operation.

I don't read the French but this one doesn't smell very Brexity / Trumpy

BFM poll from memory: who was more convincing? 63% say Macron, 34% Le Pen. Barely slanted compared to voting intention but at least it's in a good direction.