Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Politics political discourse

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-26-2011, 10:37 PM   #176
DblBarrelJ
2+2 Resident Enforcer
 
DblBarrelJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Latex glove wearin homophobe
Posts: 13,857
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Case Closed View Post
Those are exceptions, not the rule. Most of those links are arrests (show me the convictions) for doing things outside the line of duty. As far as I can tell cops get a free pass for almost anything when they have the uniform on. I mean come on, look at this thread and the previous police violence thread. I guess that when a cop gets in trouble for doing some heinous **** and their supervising officer has to make a statement full of lies they actually believe it. I always hoped it was just lies, but apparently you guys believe that you've been held accountable for your transgressions.
Umm.. Heinous crimes? Several of those are reckless driving arrests, one is an on duty arrest while operating a marked unit in full uniform.

Also a few are drug arrests. So don't think you're going to weasel out of this by stating they're all ridiculously heinous issues that couldn't be swept under the rug like murder or molestation.

ETA: Three were On duty arrests.
DblBarrelJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 12:42 AM   #177
RR
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
RR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: NOLA
Posts: 12,121
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ View Post
Umm.. Heinous crimes? Several of those are reckless driving arrests, one is an on duty arrest while operating a marked unit in full uniform.

Also a few are drug arrests. So don't think you're going to weasel out of this by stating they're all ridiculously heinous issues that couldn't be swept under the rug like murder or molestation.

ETA: Three were On duty arrests.
I just went through a couple of those. There was one where the Miami Police officer fled the Fla trooper and was charged with a misdemeanor dangerous driving. Do most people that flee and are stopped at gunpoint get charged with dangerous driving or is there a more serious charge for refusing to stop and then driving away at speeds in excess of 120 mph?
RR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 01:11 AM   #178
DblBarrelJ
2+2 Resident Enforcer
 
DblBarrelJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Latex glove wearin homophobe
Posts: 13,857
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by RR View Post
I just went through a couple of those. There was one where the Miami Police officer fled the Fla trooper and was charged with a misdemeanor dangerous driving. Do most people that flee and are stopped at gunpoint get charged with dangerous driving or is there a more serious charge for refusing to stop and then driving away at speeds in excess of 120 mph?
He wasn't fleeing. He assumed she was attempting to get around him. Cops aren't used to being traffic stopped in marked units. I've done it twice in my career with the same results both times, the cops move over 2 or 3 times on the assumption you're attempting to go around them before stopping. I've had non LEOs do the same to me, it's not a crime. Her claim is that she thought the patrol car was stolen, that's the reasoning behind the gun. What rationale she used to come to that conclusion I don't know, but I'm sure it will come out in the investigation. There is no harsher crime he can be charged with, if you don't believe me review FL traffic law. He doesn't meet the requirements for any felony charge.

As I understand this, she attempted to charge him with fleeing because she made several attempts to contact him via radio to stop him, which apparently failed. This does not meet the requirements for a legal "Stop". When she caught up with him he was going approximately 78 mph and she activated her emergency lights, at which point he moved over a few lanes and then stopped.
DblBarrelJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 01:35 AM   #179
goofyballer
 
goofyballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 59,420
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chips Ahoy View Post
I went to Davis. The protests were in the quad. That's a big open space in the middle of campus. They were blocking... the quad. It's a visible spot in the way of nobody. Here's a map:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=uc+dav...,0.002651&z=20
Bump for DBJ!
goofyballer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 01:42 AM   #180
DblBarrelJ
2+2 Resident Enforcer
 
DblBarrelJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Latex glove wearin homophobe
Posts: 13,857
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
Bump for DBJ!
I already stated if they weren't in the way of anything the cops should have let them be. Read posts much?
DblBarrelJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 01:46 AM   #181
JayTeeMe
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
JayTeeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The night shift
Posts: 24,863
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ View Post
The point it the fact that the guy is old and got a bloody nose means little to me. If he really wasn't doing anything wrong, then let the cops attempt to defend themselves in criminal and civil court. If the cops have a case, let them fight it.
I agree. Let's see if there are any charges filed.
JayTeeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 01:52 AM   #182
goofyballer
 
goofyballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 59,420
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ View Post
I already stated if they weren't in the way of anything the cops should have let them be. Read posts much?
I just found it interesting that you didn't care to say "okay, I was wrong" after Chips' post!
goofyballer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 01:58 AM   #183
DblBarrelJ
2+2 Resident Enforcer
 
DblBarrelJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Latex glove wearin homophobe
Posts: 13,857
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
I certainly found it interesting that after making a big stink about posts re: UC Davis you no longer cared to comment on the subject after Chips' post!
There was nothing more to comment on. The comment or "stink" I made was about a statement that they were herded into a line like Jews by Nazis (against their will) to get their daily dose of pepper spray, which was a complete fabrication. Obviously they weren't in the way of anything, so the cops involved were out of line to be spraying them. I stated as much before Chips ever posted the map. The posting of the map did not change anything regarding my statement, so I felt no need to address it. My statement still stands, everyone (but you apparently) participating in this discussion can look at the photo,can read my post and go "guess DBJ is against the cops on this one" and move on.
That clarify all the confusion for you goofy?
DblBarrelJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 02:01 AM   #184
goofyballer
 
goofyballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 59,420
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ View Post
the cops involved were out of line to be spraying them.
Thanks!
goofyballer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 02:04 AM   #185
DblBarrelJ
2+2 Resident Enforcer
 
DblBarrelJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Latex glove wearin homophobe
Posts: 13,857
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
Thanks!
Sure thing.
DblBarrelJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 02:03 PM   #186
RR
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
RR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: NOLA
Posts: 12,121
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ View Post
He wasn't fleeing. He assumed she was attempting to get around him. Cops aren't used to being traffic stopped in marked units. I've done it twice in my career with the same results both times, the cops move over 2 or 3 times on the assumption you're attempting to go around them before stopping. I've had non LEOs do the same to me, it's not a crime. Her claim is that she thought the patrol car was stolen, that's the reasoning behind the gun. What rationale she used to come to that conclusion I don't know, but I'm sure it will come out in the investigation. There is no harsher crime he can be charged with, if you don't believe me review FL traffic law. He doesn't meet the requirements for any felony charge.

As I understand this, she attempted to charge him with fleeing because she made several attempts to contact him via radio to stop him, which apparently failed. This does not meet the requirements for a legal "Stop". When she caught up with him he was going approximately 78 mph and she activated her emergency lights, at which point he moved over a few lanes and then stopped.
It would seem that her belief that the car was stolen was based on the he appeared to be fleeing. He didn't state he was trying to get over, he stated he didn't see the blue lights. Unless there is more to see, this certainly looks like he got a pass based on being a police officer.
RR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 02:23 PM   #187
coffee_monster
veteran
 
coffee_monster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,245
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by RR View Post
It would seem that her belief that the car was stolen was based on the he appeared to be fleeing. He didn't state he was trying to get over, he stated he didn't see the blue lights. Unless there is more to see, this certainly looks like he got a pass based on being a police officer.
Meh. Based on the facts stated ITT, it seems pretty similar to what happened to a friend of mine in High School (so age might have been an issue, but other than a regular car vs. police car that's the only significant difference in facts) but he was only charged with misdemeanors--pretty equivalent to what the officer in this case was charged with.

So you could have a gut reaction that 'he should be charged with more', but do you have any reason to actually believe that? For me, I have a lot of reason to *not* believe that.
coffee_monster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 03:09 PM   #188
DblBarrelJ
2+2 Resident Enforcer
 
DblBarrelJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Latex glove wearin homophobe
Posts: 13,857
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by RR View Post
It would seem that her belief that the car was stolen was based on the he appeared to be fleeing. He didn't state he was trying to get over, he stated he didn't see the blue lights. Unless there is more to see, this certainly looks like he got a pass based on being a police officer.
This is a traffic infraction, not a homicide investigation. When one ends up in handcuffs due to a traffic infraction, pretty sure that individual did not, in fact "get a pass based on being a police officer."

Had he gotten a pass for being a police officer, there would have been no traffic stop period, let alone a traffic stop and an arrest.
Out of curiosity, what would you charge him with were you in her shoes?
DblBarrelJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 03:23 PM   #189
RR
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
RR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: NOLA
Posts: 12,121
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ View Post
This is a traffic infraction, not a homicide investigation. When one ends up in handcuffs due to a traffic infraction, pretty sure that individual did not, in fact "get a pass based on being a police officer."

Had he gotten a pass for being a police officer, there would have been no traffic stop period, let alone a traffic stop and an arrest.
Out of curiosity, what would you charge him with were you in her shoes?
I am not in law enforcement. It just appears that the statements made at the time support that he was fleeing. I am pretty sure that is against the law. If the facts of this case were the same, but making him a civilian in a civilian car, do you think they would have charged him differently and then let the lawyers sort it out?

It appears (not just this case) that a separate set of rules apply to law enforcement officers, not in that they get to ignore the law, but that they get the benefit of the doubt and get charged "fairly" rather than being over-charged so "it will be pled down."
RR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 03:26 PM   #190
coffee_monster
veteran
 
coffee_monster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,245
Re: Law and Order 2

So now anti-police people ITT are complaining about police charging others fairly???? Wow.

Hey, they treated the cop that committed a crime fairly! OMG!!!!
coffee_monster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 03:44 PM   #191
fredd-bird
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
fredd-bird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: LBS
Posts: 18,939
Quote:
Originally Posted by goofyballer View Post
I just found it interesting that you didn't care to say "okay, I was wrong" after Chips' post!
Please point out where he was "wrong."
fredd-bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 03:57 PM   #192
DblBarrelJ
2+2 Resident Enforcer
 
DblBarrelJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Latex glove wearin homophobe
Posts: 13,857
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by RR View Post
I am not in law enforcement. It just appears that the statements made at the time support that he was fleeing. I am pretty sure that is against the law. If the facts of this case were the same, but making him a civilian in a civilian car, do you think they would have charged him differently and then let the lawyers sort it out?

It appears (not just this case) that a separate set of rules apply to law enforcement officers, not in that they get to ignore the law, but that they get the benefit of the doubt and get charged "fairly" rather than being over-charged so "it will be pled down."
What you are referring to is charging people with the most serious charge you believe they are technically guilty of. Based upon the circumstances of this case, I cannot charge ANYONE with fleeing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FL Law Code Section 316.1935
Fleeing or attempting to elude a law enforcement officer; aggravated fleeing or eluding.--

(1)**It is unlawful for the operator of any vehicle, having knowledge that he or she has been ordered to stop such vehicle by a duly authorized law enforcement officer, willfully to refuse or fail to stop the vehicle in compliance with such order or, having stopped in knowing compliance with such order, willfully to flee in an attempt to elude the officer, and a person who violates this subsection commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
In this case you CANNOT prove this particular element of the crime, regardless of whether we're talking about a Miami police officer or Tony Soprano. Remember, to hold someone for Fleeing (A felony) I must get a judge to sign an arrest warrant. No judge is going to sign that warrant based on this particular set of facts. Everything about this case is absolutely fair.
DblBarrelJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 06:26 PM   #193
Case Closed
self-banned
 
Case Closed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: pooping my big boy pants
Posts: 19,112
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by coffee_monster View Post
So now anti-police people ITT are complaining about police charging others fairly???? Wow.

Hey, they treated the cop that committed a crime fairly! OMG!!!!
No one is making the argument that there should not be police.
Case Closed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 06:34 PM   #194
coffee_monster
veteran
 
coffee_monster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,245
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Case Closed View Post
No one is making the argument that there should not be police.
Sheesh, you know what I mean. Thought it would be obvious that meant AK, RR, and the like.
coffee_monster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 06:38 PM   #195
Case Closed
self-banned
 
Case Closed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: pooping my big boy pants
Posts: 19,112
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by coffee_monster View Post
Sheesh, you know what I mean. Thought it would be obvious that meant AK, RR, and the like.
Yeah, you're typecasting your opposition as something they are not. Classic political move.
Case Closed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 06:46 PM   #196
coffee_monster
veteran
 
coffee_monster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,245
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Case Closed View Post
Yeah, you're typecasting your opposition as something they are not. Classic political move.
What? OK. Keep up with the paranoia.

Last edited by coffee_monster; 11-27-2011 at 06:46 PM. Reason: That's not typecasting as something you're not.
coffee_monster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 07:04 PM   #197
Case Closed
self-banned
 
Case Closed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: pooping my big boy pants
Posts: 19,112
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by coffee_monster View Post
What? OK. Keep up with the paranoia.
What am I paranoid about?
Case Closed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 07:07 PM   #198
RR
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
RR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: NOLA
Posts: 12,121
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ View Post
What you are referring to is charging people with the most serious charge you believe they are technically guilty of. Based upon the circumstances of this case, I cannot charge ANYONE with fleeing.



In this case you CANNOT prove this particular element of the crime, regardless of whether we're talking about a Miami police officer or Tony Soprano. Remember, to hold someone for Fleeing (A felony) I must get a judge to sign an arrest warrant. No judge is going to sign that warrant based on this particular set of facts. Everything about this case is absolutely fair.
What percentage of arrests do you believe are made by officers that can't prove a thing? Not how many they are supposed to be able to prove, but how many they actually can prove?
RR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 07:12 PM   #199
coffee_monster
veteran
 
coffee_monster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,245
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Case Closed View Post
What am I paranoid about?
That a one-off label used for convenience is some huge conspiracy worth exposing (or something like that).

Just in case you can't interpret that to the situation, it means you read in a ton more into a simple word/phrase than you should have.
coffee_monster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 07:18 PM   #200
DblBarrelJ
2+2 Resident Enforcer
 
DblBarrelJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Latex glove wearin homophobe
Posts: 13,857
Re: Law and Order 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by RR View Post
What percentage of arrests do you believe are made by officers that can't prove a thing? Not how many they are supposed to be able to prove, but how many they actually can prove?
Extremely slim. As I've stated, these are typically the arrests you hear about when someone gets let out within hours of being booked in, typically because if you do this, the judge can't sign the warrant, the jail won't hold your suspect without a warrant, your suspect is free to go, and your case is DOA.

Quite often the police can prove a hell of a lot more than they typically do in cases that make it to trial and the suspect is found not guilty. These are typically cases where some overzealous cop didn't play by the rules and got important evidence thrown out. Maintaining your evidence is part of the skill-set of a good cop IMO. Too many cops are of the mentality that they do "their" job and let the Prosecuting Attorneys do their part. I disagree. When I arrest someone, I see it as my job to collect all necessary evidence through all proper channels to ensure a successful conviction. If my evidence is tossed out, I see that as a personal failure.
DblBarrelJ is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online