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Old 11-26-2011, 06:28 PM   #151
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Re: Law and Order 2

http://rt.com/usa/news/black-friday-newman-police-269/

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Old 11-26-2011, 06:33 PM   #152
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Re: Law and Order 2

The UC Davis occupy event where the cops lined up protesters on their knees and then soaked their faces in pepper spray to the point where some of them suffered NERVE DAMAGE was quite something. It's reminiscent of a fascist police state like Nazi Germany, really. It makes you wonder what some of these individuals would do if they had greater leeway to hurt/kill innocent people. Someone needs to design some kind of more intense Milgram-type experiment for cops, but we all know what the conclusion will be - they have a tendency to be deranged, violent, abusive, soulless beings. Although I acknowledge some cops do have hearts and would never do things like that.
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:41 PM   #153
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Originally Posted by AKSpartan View Post
The UC Davis occupy event where the cops lined up protesters on their knees and then soaked their faces in pepper spray to the point where some of them suffered NERVE DAMAGE was quite something.
I must of missed that! How did they line them up? Were they lined up at gunpoint with the intention to be pepper-sprayed? Were their lives threatened if they attempted to leave when told they would be pepper sprayed?

Link please.
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:46 PM   #154
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Re: Law and Order 2

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I must of missed that! How did they line them up? Were they lined up at gunpoint with the intention to be pepper-sprayed? Were their lives threatened if they attempted to leave when told they would be pepper sprayed?

Link please.
I don't care what they did. You can not justify this, period. It's just sick and wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AdDLhPwpp4

And you don't have to get offended when I say stuff like this. I get that you identify with police officers, but you have to understand that some of them use their power over others to do terrible, terrible things. I'm confident that you are much better than this. But I wish you could empathize with my concerns rather than being defensive.
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:56 PM   #155
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Re: Law and Order 2

I think you misspoke on the main point though, which is the issue I was taking.

Without even getting into what may have been right or wrong about this incident, you're LYING about the specifics of it. Even the Youtube video you linked contradicts you, prior to even starting the actual footage. There is no other way around it. This statement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKSpartan
where the cops lined up protesters on their knees
is an absolute lie. And this happens on somewhat of a routine basis in your posting related to law enforcement stories. The cops DID NOT line anyone up AT ALL.

The police were attempting to get these people to move. Was pepper-spraying them right or wrong? That's your issue. That's worth debate. But you're framing this story as an absolute lie, behaving as those these students who were sprayed were completely uninvolved bystanders and goons with AR-15's rounded them up like nazi's rounding up Jews in Germany and put them all in a line, then pepper sprayed them.

Why not just tell the truth man? Why not just post the video and the story and say "Hey, these students were protesting at Occupy UC Davis, Police told them to move, they didn't move, so cops sprayed them. WTF?!?!?!"

That's the issue.
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:59 PM   #156
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Re: Law and Order 2

I didn't lie. I was wrong. I didn't see the part where they were there on their own volition, and I concluded on my own that, by the way it went down, they had been lined up. Conceded.

Can you address the real point here?
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Old 11-26-2011, 07:03 PM   #157
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Old 11-26-2011, 07:04 PM   #158
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Re: Law and Order 2

Don't really know a lot about it. Could be right, could be wrong. I'm not quite sure what it is exactly they're blocking. IMO it all relates on what they're blocking and how pressing it is that they be moved.

If its a union type thing, and students attempting to get to whatever the protesters are blocking are being threatened with violence, move them. If they're blocking emergency services from accessing someone needing emergency medical care, move them. If they're stopping people from being able to leave campus, they're guilty of a crime, so move them.

If they're just sitting there behaving moronically, and not bothering anyone else, and not disrupting anything, then what the police did was wrong. I wasn't there, so I don't know.
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Old 11-26-2011, 07:07 PM   #159
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Re: Law and Order 2

And I will also add that I am not one to ever intentionally mischaracterize things - especially when I'm so obviously contradicted by the opening of that video, and to claim that I'm constantly intentionally mischaracterizing (or unintentionally, for that matter) the actions of law enforcement is simply not true. I wish you would not shy away from judging the actions of the police here.
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Old 11-26-2011, 07:11 PM   #160
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Re: Law and Order 2

Police thugs try to intimidate journalist.

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Old 11-26-2011, 07:39 PM   #161
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Originally Posted by AKSpartan View Post
I didn't see the part where they were there on their own volition, and I concluded on my own that, by the way it went down, they had been lined up.
Seriously though? You see the story "Police Pepper-spray students" and your immediate knee jerk reaction is that the police yelled "YEEHAW, hippie roundup time!" and forced them all to their knees and sprayed them?

Really?

Because what actually happened is my typical reaction, IE they were somewhere, the cops told them over and over to move and they refused.
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Old 11-26-2011, 07:41 PM   #162
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Re: Law and Order 2

That black friday video is really disgusting. That officer should be in jail awaiting his day in court for assaulting someone. There is virtually no accountability in our system for law enforcement.
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Old 11-26-2011, 07:50 PM   #163
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ View Post
If its a union type thing, and students attempting to get to whatever the protesters are blocking are being threatened with violence, move them. If they're blocking emergency services from accessing someone needing emergency medical care, move them. If they're stopping people from being able to leave campus, they're guilty of a crime, so move them.

If they're just sitting there behaving moronically, and not bothering anyone else, and not disrupting anything, then what the police did was wrong. I wasn't there, so I don't know.
Nice false dichotomy; either they're breaking the law or they're behaving moronically. That's a nice rhetorical trick to discredit the protesters even if they did nothing wrong and the police were entirely out of line. It's also illustrative that you're able to withhold judgement of the police because, as you say, you "don't know much about it," yet that ignorance of the situation doesn't preclude you from disparaging the protesters.

Personally, I don't find anything moronic about peaceful civil protests, but I might be weird that way.
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Old 11-26-2011, 07:54 PM   #164
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ View Post
Seriously though? You see the story "Police Pepper-spray students" and your immediate knee jerk reaction is that the police yelled "YEEHAW, hippie roundup time!" and forced them all to their knees and sprayed them?

Really?

Because what actually happened is my typical reaction, IE they were somewhere, the cops told them over and over to move and they refused.
No, there's always some justification. Obviously the police will have some claim that they didn't obey them or whatever, and their frustration combined with the hot-headedness that comes from being screamed at by protesters and the feelings of brotherhood with your fellow officers and the hatred for the loud masses that they're tasked with "handling" leads to them doing brash, violent things like causing permanent nerve damage to some kids because they didn't comply with their orders to move. I just feel sorry for the officers because if I ever reached the point where I could do something like that to a group of kids doing nothing violent, disobedient as they may be, I would hardly feel human any more.
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Old 11-26-2011, 07:55 PM   #165
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Re: Law and Order 2

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That black friday video is really disgusting. That officer should be in jail awaiting his day in court for assaulting someone. There is virtually no accountability in our system for law enforcement.
How so? What on the video is so disgusting? Is there never a justifiable reason for someone to get a bloody nose during arrest?

Based on what I've read, it doesn't look good. Then again, I've seen over and over situations where evidence the media chooses not to air shows a completely different story than what they're saying.

An example; I have a friend who punched a 74 year old woman in the face, dislocating her jaw.

Sounds horrible, doesn't it? Does it matter that she had just struck him in the head with a pizza pan and had just picked up a butcher knife?

The point it the fact that the guy is old and got a bloody nose means little to me. If he really wasn't doing anything wrong, then let the cops attempt to defend themselves in criminal and civil court. If the cops have a case, let them fight it.
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:00 PM   #166
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ View Post
How so? What on the video is so disgusting? Is there never a justifiable reason for someone to get a bloody nose during arrest?

Based on what I've read, it doesn't look good. Then again, I've seen over and over situations where evidence the media chooses not to air shows a completely different story than what they're saying.

An example; I have a friend who punched a 74 year old woman in the face, dislocating her jaw.

Sounds horrible, doesn't it? Does it matter that she had just struck him in the head with a pizza pan and had just picked up a butcher knife?

The point it the fact that the guy is old and got a bloody nose means little to me. If he really wasn't doing anything wrong, then let the cops attempt to defend themselves in criminal and civil court. If the cops have a case, let them fight it.
Cops can defend themselves. If this guy posed a threat then I would be stunned.

I do like that you included criminal court like that's even an option. Cops operate above the rules, you should just acknowledge that.
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:00 PM   #167
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Nice false dichotomy; either they're breaking the law or they're behaving moronically. That's a nice rhetorical trick to discredit the protesters even if they did nothing wrong and the police were entirely out of line. It's also illustrative that you're able to withhold judgement of the police because, as you say, you "don't know much about it," yet that ignorance of the situation doesn't preclude you from disparaging the protesters.

Personally, I don't find anything moronic about peaceful civil protests, but I might be weird that way.
Forgive me. Obviously you should realize that behaving moronically isn't a crime. I do think this particular group of protesters are... to say the least, misguided and immature. That being said, being misguided and immature doesn't give the police any right to assault you.
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:16 PM   #168
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Cops can defend themselves. If this guy posed a threat then I would be stunned.

I do like that you included criminal court like that's even an option. Cops operate above the rules, you should just acknowledge that.
I do like that you included criminal court that's even an option. Cops operate above the rules, you should just acknowledge that.

ORLY
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:29 PM   #169
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Been watching random videos of cops being violent douchetards, this was particularly troubling (w/ Kokesh): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jUU3yCy3uI
Seriously. "We are going to arrest you if you dance but I can't tell you in advance what law you would be breaking."
Quote:
IDK who Kokesh is but regardless of the reasoning, he was placed under lawful arrest for what I would assume amounts to disorderly conduct and warned numerous times to comply.
You have to "assume" because at no point did any of the police say what law they were warned against breaking, or what law they actually broke.

I mean, maybe you relish living in a world in which the police make up the laws to suit, but I'm sure I don't.
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:52 PM   #170
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ View Post
Don't really know a lot about it. Could be right, could be wrong. I'm not quite sure what it is exactly they're blocking. IMO it all relates on what they're blocking and how pressing it is that they be moved.

If its a union type thing, and students attempting to get to whatever the protesters are blocking are being threatened with violence, move them. If they're blocking emergency services from accessing someone needing emergency medical care, move them. If they're stopping people from being able to leave campus, they're guilty of a crime, so move them.

If they're just sitting there behaving moronically, and not bothering anyone else, and not disrupting anything, then what the police did was wrong. I wasn't there, so I don't know.
I went to Davis. The protests were in the quad. That's a big open space in the middle of campus. They were blocking... the quad. It's a visible spot in the way of nobody. Here's a map:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=uc+dav...,0.002651&z=20
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Old 11-26-2011, 09:23 PM   #171
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Re: Law and Order 2

Is there a keep off the grass sign? If there is, then the protestors were forcing other people to break an ordinance and walk on the grass. If there isn't, they were just behaving moronically, and if that isn't a crime, it sure should be.
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Old 11-26-2011, 09:25 PM   #172
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Re: Law and Order 2

Monkey Banana in politics!

What brings you to this lovely forum?
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Old 11-26-2011, 09:27 PM   #173
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Re: Law and Order 2

Taking off to watch some football. Likely will be back later. No maj til tomorrow night!
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Old 11-26-2011, 09:27 PM   #174
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Re: Law and Order 2

This is not the werewolf thread lol
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Old 11-26-2011, 10:25 PM   #175
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Re: Law and Order 2

Those are exceptions, not the rule. Most of those links are arrests (show me the convictions) for doing things outside the line of duty. As far as I can tell cops get a free pass for almost anything when they have the uniform on. I mean come on, look at this thread and the previous police violence thread. I guess that when a cop gets in trouble for doing some heinous **** and their supervising officer has to make a statement full of lies they actually believe it. I always hoped it was just lies, but apparently you guys believe that you've been held accountable for your transgressions.
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