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Old 10-30-2011, 08:34 PM   #126
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Re: Law and Order 2

I haven't looked at article in a few days but I don't recall anyone even alleging that this particular prisoner was using the cell phone for any nefarious or harmful purpose.
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Old 10-30-2011, 08:38 PM   #127
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Re: Law and Order 2

Just looked at at it again, and I suppose its possible that prison would allege he was using the phone to call in a hit. However, given our current evidence (which is admittedly quite limited) that's a pretty tenuous objection. Why would this prisoner use a phone to call in a hit rather than just wait until he got out and do it himself from the outside?
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Old 10-30-2011, 08:45 PM   #128
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Re: Law and Order 2

Prisoners are known for impulse control imo.
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Old 10-30-2011, 08:47 PM   #129
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Re: Law and Order 2

In this specific instance, going out on a limb I learned never to go on during my tenure doing intel for the DOC, I will assume the inmate is telling the truth. Even if he is, he still knew full well the consequences of using the cell phone. Inmates learn the consequences of cell phone possession/use in their first 15 minutes of arrival, and it was reinforced REPEATEDLY during his time.

He made a decision, knowing full well the consequences if he was caught. This inmate wasn't blindsided, he knew this could happen to him.

If he was so concerned about getting out, he should've been walking the line during his last two weeks or whatever it was, not running around with cell phones.

As an aside, my question to this inmate is why in the hell didn't he use a DOC phone to call his family, like every other convict does?
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Old 10-30-2011, 08:56 PM   #130
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Re: Law and Order 2

As I indicated previously, I admit we don't have full facts here. I'm assuming (as it seems we all have been) in arguendo that the prisoner was only using the phone for the benign purpose of calling his family.

I'll also freely concede that the prisoner is dumb, really really dumb, for real, for doing this. Like you said, he should have just waited, used an authorized phone, whatever.

But that doesn't excuse the exacting of a ridiculous punishment like this. It's like the mugger who tells you to give you his wallet. Yea, you're probably dumb if you don't give him your wallet, but that doesn't justify him shooting you in the kneecaps to get it.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:01 PM   #131
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Re: Law and Order 2

Obviously that prisoner is special and the rules don't apply to him.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:13 PM   #132
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Re: Law and Order 2

Draconian state is draconian.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:43 PM   #133
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Re: Law and Order 2

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There's also the issue that inmates don't really have the "right" to consent to sex, so all consensual sex between inmates and guards as well as consensual sex between inmates is considered rape.
Wat?

Prisoners = 15yo girls? I'm missing something.
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Old 10-31-2011, 06:50 AM   #134
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Re: Law and Order 2

I placed the word "right" in quotation marks as I am referencing law, not natural rights.

In most states, having sexual relations with an inmate is rape, particularly if you're a staff member. Regardless of whether the inmate consented or not. Sex between inmates is also against prison rules. This is because of the large amounts of violence sex, or more specifically, couples, can create in a prison environment.
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Old 10-31-2011, 01:07 PM   #135
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Gunpoint Arrest of Cop Going 120 MPH in Cop Car (kinda meh)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gql-HsVDnhU
wow@ all the comments defending the speeding officer
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:39 PM   #136
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ View Post
I placed the word "right" in quotation marks as I am referencing law, not natural rights.

In most states, having sexual relations with an inmate is rape, particularly if you're a staff member. Regardless of whether the inmate consented or not. Sex between inmates is also against prison rules. This is because of the large amounts of violence sex, or more specifically, couples, can create in a prison environment.
I think those rules make sense. It gives protection to the people who are raped and would be forced to claim it is consensual because they are afraid of worse punishments.

The situation w/r/t to rape in the current penal system is absolutely disgusting. I can't say that I have an actual pragmatic solution, I just wanna say that current attitudes toward it are insane.
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Old 11-01-2011, 01:28 PM   #137
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Re: Law and Order 2

Been watching random videos of cops being violent douchetards, this was particularly troubling (w/ Kokesh): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jUU3yCy3uI
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Old 11-01-2011, 01:45 PM   #138
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Re: Law and Order 2

That is unreal. Wtf is wrong with those cops?
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:50 PM   #139
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Been watching random videos of cops being violent douchetards, this was particularly troubling (w/ Kokesh): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jUU3yCy3uI
IDK who Kokesh is but regardless of the reasoning, he was placed under lawful arrest for what I would assume amounts to disorderly conduct and warned numerous times to comply.

I've dealt with you before. I know the term "Lawful Arrest" means something to you so far from what it means to me that we can't have a legitimate discussion about this, just putting my two cents in.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:57 PM   #140
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Re: Law and Order 2

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IDK who Kokesh is but regardless of the reasoning, he was placed under lawful arrest for what I would assume amounts to disorderly conduct and warned numerous times to comply.
Can you really be arrested for moving rhythmically?
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Old 11-02-2011, 12:10 AM   #141
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Can you really be arrested for moving rhythmically?
Obviously it's not generally my definition of Disorderly Conduct, but I've seen arrests stick for less when cops are attempting to remove the troublemakers from large crowd control situations.

Not that I agree with these guys. I didn't see any real crowd control situations, however I'm familiar enough with both professional protesters and amateur YouTube journalists to know that just because I don't see it on the video doesn't mean it's not there.

You'll have to forgive me, but I have a rather difficult time feeling sympathy for those who go out of their way to get themselves placed under arrest, then resist arrest, then look utterly dumbfounded when they are forcefully taken into custody. Being taken into custody was the intent of the exercise, was it not? Why fight it?
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Old 11-02-2011, 12:43 AM   #142
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Re: Law and Order 2

They didn't really look like they resisted to me. Getting arrested was the point, yes. If the government is arresting people for ridiculous things like this, i think it's a good civic service to show us what that looks like and how ridiculous things have gotten.
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:01 AM   #143
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Re: Law and Order 2

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They didn't really look like they resisted to me. Getting arrested was the point, yes. If the government is arresting people for ridiculous things like this, i think it's a good civic service to show us what that looks like and how ridiculous things have gotten.
The one who was slammed most violently was actively resisting. The beginning of the encounter with the man I assume was Kokesh was not shown, however, he was told repeatedly "place your hands behind your back, this is your last warning, you're under arrest" etc. I believe he was actually told 3x "this is your last warning".

While the move may appear excessive at first glance, it basically comes under the "Special Factors" training of use of force. You have an older, smaller man arresting a larger, younger man, who is of a military background. Whether the cop knew about that background during the arrest I am unaware. The gentleman being arrested appears quite strong and was warned numerous times to comply peacefully.

His intent was arrest, why he didn't immediately comply is beyond me. Civil disobedience is fine, if you want to go to jail to prove a law is unjust, be my guest. In some cases I support your cause. Quite often I flat refuse those I encounter who are attempting to be arrested. However, if you're trying to get yourself arrested, and you succeed, go peacefully. You stand a much greater chance of beating the rap for the unjust law you may have broken (or not) than the Obstruction/Hindering LE case you just caught, which you're unquestionably guilty of.
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:34 AM   #144
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Re: Law and Order 2

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IDK who Kokesh is but regardless of the reasoning, he was placed under lawful arrest for what I would assume amounts to disorderly conduct and warned numerous times to comply.
So the police here didn't do anything illegal, and everything's hunky dory. Great.

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I've dealt with you before. I know the term "Lawful Arrest" means something to you so far from what it means to me that we can't have a legitimate discussion about this, just putting my two cents in.
Uh, ok? You sound like one of the officers on cops who says something like "we get called out to deal with this ******* all the time." Am I some kind of internet delinquent? You're extremely quick to rule out the possibility of legitimate discussion. Perhaps you don't like me calling people who do things such as this "violent douchetards." However, I think it may be possible to be a police officer without being a violent douchetard. The vast majority don't really care to try though. And for all I know their superiors might have major problems if they aren't being sufficiently aggressive towards the populace.

Sure this may have been a "lawful arrest" and body-slamming Kokesh to the ground because he locked his arms may be just fine in your eyes, but the point of all of this is to demonstrate what a joke our modern police state is. People were violently arrested here for casually dancing. No one is being made safe here. Rather, heavily-armed empowered to trample on others' liberties are "doing their job." It's disgusting.
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:54 AM   #145
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Originally Posted by DblBarrelJ View Post
The one who was slammed most violently was actively resisting. The beginning of the encounter with the man I assume was Kokesh was not shown, however, he was told repeatedly "place your hands behind your back, this is your last warning, you're under arrest" etc. I believe he was actually told 3x "this is your last warning".

While the move may appear excessive at first glance, it basically comes under the "Special Factors" training of use of force. You have an older, smaller man arresting a larger, younger man, who is of a military background. Whether the cop knew about that background during the arrest I am unaware. The gentleman being arrested appears quite strong and was warned numerous times to comply peacefully.

His intent was arrest, why he didn't immediately comply is beyond me. Civil disobedience is fine, if you want to go to jail to prove a law is unjust, be my guest. In some cases I support your cause. Quite often I flat refuse those I encounter who are attempting to be arrested. However, if you're trying to get yourself arrested, and you succeed, go peacefully. You stand a much greater chance of beating the rap for the unjust law you may have broken (or not) than the Obstruction/Hindering LE case you just caught, which you're unquestionably guilty of.
I guess I don't have a huge problem with the manner in which they were arrested. But they never should have been arrested at all. That's the problem.
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:50 AM   #146
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Re: Law and Order 2

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I guess I don't have a huge problem with the manner in which they were arrested. But they never should have been arrested at all. That's the problem.
I agree.
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Old 11-04-2011, 11:29 PM   #147
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Re: Law and Order 2

Got pulled over on the highway into work today. Going 72 in a 65. Got off with a warning and the cop was super nice and professional. Luckily, no dog in the backseat to shoot.

I'm actually gonna go on the state patrol website and see if there's a way to leave a comment for his supervisor about how polite he was. The non-dicks should know they're appreciated and get promoted imo.
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:07 AM   #148
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Re: Law and Order 2

In before the state trooper gets scolded and reprimanded for not being more of an *******.
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Old 11-05-2011, 12:33 PM   #149
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Re: Law and Order 2

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Got pulled over on the highway into work today. Going 72 in a 65. Got off with a warning and the cop was super nice and professional. Luckily, no dog in the backseat to shoot.

I'm actually gonna go on the state patrol website and see if there's a way to leave a comment for his supervisor about how polite he was. The non-dicks should know they're appreciated and get promoted imo.
Pulled over for going +7? Either he was bored as hell or your car matched a BOLO...

About the comment thing, the best way to do that would probably be to find the nearest Trooper post and call and ask to speak to the POST commander.
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Old 11-07-2011, 03:17 AM   #150
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Re: Law and Order 2

I sent an email to the POST "contact us".

I agree that 7+ is pretty silly to pull me over for but it's not like I wasn't over the limit. Can't complain about a warning imo. It was Friday night so it was probably a drunk check.
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