Well, I wear a jacket in the winter so pretty much daily. I've got a few short sleeve shirts that it conceals with too. If you're asking if I OC, never. I concealed carry every day. If I'm not in clothing that I can conceal the Serpa in, I use a IWB holster.

I believe it's socially unacceptable because of the evidence. People wouldn't run and dial 911 en masse if it was. Do you dial 911 whenever you witness a woman pushing a stroller? No you don't, because it's socially acceptable. BTW, these 911 calls aren't a small minority. They come in by the dozens at a time, clogging the 911 system. I'm sure there is someone, in some cemetary right now who is dead because they couldn't get through to 911 because the actions of an OCer clogged the lines.

Also, and this is directed at will, I have a problem with the dehumanizing way you're appearing to show I can't hold opinions of my own. Just because I hold th opinion OCers are generally tactical bedwetters who like to freak out the public doesn't mean I went out and hooked up every OCer I encountered.

It's possible to hold a personal opinion while still enforcing the law fairly professionally and correctly.

I could care less what you think about OCers personally. I have a problem with cops, not necessarily you, bothering OCers when they aren't breaking a law. By bothering, or harassing, I mean stopping and talking to them.

Which is unacceptably dehumanizing to all police IMO.

Why in the hell do you believe one human being doesn't have a right to stop and talk to another? It's pretty much a game at this point anyway.

The OCers wanna piss off cops and get good YouTube footage, we just like to mock them while at the same time disappointing them on their quest for YouTube glory.

How is that unacceptably dehumanizing them? With the exception of hot chicks, there isn't a single stranger on this planet that I'm going to acknowledge if they randomly start asking me questions on the street. So why do cops feel like they are special little snowflakes and demand to be acknowledged by me? Once again, if they aren't doing anything illegal don't talk to them. If you do choose to talk to them, don't get all butt hurt when they aren't happy to cooperate with you.

But they're most happy to cooperate with me.

They're without doubt one of the most legally savvy movements in the US today. They know full well they can walk away whenever.

They're out, looking for a LE confrontation to prove their ******ed non-point.

Why would anybody actively seeking a (admittedly verbal, I am not trying to imply these guys are a threat) confrontation with a LEO just walk away?

Like you said, they do it for youtube. Why do cops keep obliging them when they have no legal reason to? The California vid is different, Cali has a law on the books that says weapons must be unloaded, and cops have a right to verify that upon seeing a weapon.

The two times I happened to be OCing (and I wasn't thinking about it, I had just got home from shooting and simply didn't take off my shoulder holster when I walked the 200 yards to the corner store), I was stopped and pestered by police. When I refused to hand over my ID, or let them inspect my weapon (they don't have the right to do that in my state) they detained me for over an hour. By detained I mean they took my weapon and had me sitting handcuffed on the sidewalk. So, yeah, I have a big problem with cops stopping to say hi when I'm not doing anything wrong.

What did they state you were being detained for? Suspicion of what crime?

Suspicion of being suspicious. Seriously, they never stated why I was being detained, other than "you're carrying a gun in public and refused to give the officer your ID". I asked several times to either charge me with something or let me go. I also asked for a lawyer several times. After an hour of a dozen cops asking me stupid questions and me refusing to answer they gave me my gun and wallet back and sent me on my way. After telling me that I should, "be more polite and cooperative next time".

The quotes are from the first encounter. The second time I was living in a different city, after I told them I wasn't going to answer any questions w/o a lawyer nobody spoke to me until they realized they couldn't charge me with a crime (seriously, they were looking up the state, county, and city codes). Then, they told me to have a nice day.

You must live in a ****ty state. I'd recommend calling the Chief or Sheriff, the City or County Commissioners and lodging a complaint, and informing both they have exactly 48 hours to rectify this situation via training as well as internal sanctions or you'll contact the media.

This makes no sense. Unless open carriers are calling on themselves, they are not clogging anything. It's the "bed-wetters" (to borrow your "humanizing" term) who are wasting 911 resources by calling in the state to harass law abiding citizens simply because the caller is not agreement with the open carry laws in that particular state. Maybe if the PD stopped accommodating these people the volume of unnecessary calls would go down. Law enforcement should remind them that 911 is for reporting actual crimes, that there are penalties for calling in false alarms, and that if they are not happy with the gun laws in their state they should be calling their State Legislators instead.

Which part of this is about "enforcing the law fairly, professionally and correctly"?

yay big brother

lol

Are you implying the OCers have no idea they're freaking people out?

Also, how is it a "false alarm" if the report is "man with a gun" and the result is "man with a gun"?

I agree with you about calling the legislator. Now can you agree you're a douche for doing this in public and scaring little kids and the elderly and yuppies?

You are aware that nothing you've highlighted shows "enforcement" at all, I hope... Enforcement would be wrongfully arresting someone. I'm sorry you feel dry reading the gun laws is somehow enforcement, but it is not.

This is hilarious. Call the PD and issue not just an ultimatum, but an ultimatum with a deadline! May as well threaten them with a stern talking to as well.

I bet you'd love to be at the roll call where they shared this gem with the troops. "He said if we didn't rectify it he'd CALL THE MEDIA"!

BTW, the kind of treatment will1530 described in post #708 is absolutely standard for every dept in America. You were on the job long enough to know that, don't even try to deny it.

I wouldn't say justified in being afraid, and I think it's more than a simple social convention like being polite. It's more about a visible power difference.

I think that people who aren't armed and see a stranger with a weapon will be hesitant, cautious, agitated and generally just won't ignore the person, and I don't think that can be 'socially conventioned ' out of a person, until , in general, they get a gun too to equal out the power difference, have another party check up on the person. or have enough experience with the person not to worry. In that sense it isn't a ( legally or even really rationally) justifiable fear, but I think that is an ( evolutionary maybe) fear does exist in that situation and that's why OCers get a continuous stream of police calls and I don't think those calls would subside even with massive public education campaigns about the legality of OC, because people are still going to have that fear in spite of the legality of it until that that power differential is parried.

I think hiding could give the impression of visible 'power equality' or whatever you want to call it so even if it is false in truth, everyone feels relatively equal in public and therefor, at least superficially, safe. In that way I think it's more than just being polite like holding a door open for someone.

So you acted like a douche and were treated as such. wp.

Really smart deciding to take a stand there instead of just showing your id and being on your way. Trying to make a situation out of nothing is so much fun and well worth it.

WILL WHY DONT U JUST GO ALONG TO GET ALONG CUZ IF U DONT U DESERVE THE CUFFS AND POSSIBLY A PLUNGER UP UR BUTT

Every? Like you'd wager on it? Or are you exaggerating a bit?

Also, I don't know what's so LOL RE: Media. If ou don't think police admins care what the media says, I'm telling you from experience they do, and of you're acting as though the media won't cover it, you obviously want too much Fox News/CNN and not very much of the "Channel 13 Live At 5" stuff.

Might as well put this in here.



http://www.npr.org/2012/02/10/146643...on-the-streets

Edit: Corrected the wrong youtube video

Now I disagree. If he's telling the whole truth without leaving anything he knows is pertinent out, the cops were clearly wrong.

It was a somewhat douchy move, and were it me once I discovered he was going in the dbag direction, I would've made some snide remarks about John Wayne and Dirty Harry and left.

An hour detention is out of line, and you both know that.

Dirty Harry carried concealed.

Don't nit me NeBlis. How was IDPA tonight?

sick in bed... and its every other monday so next monday I woulda PM'd you. I do really want to go more often but timing isn't always on my side.

If it was really a full hour then yeah, that's a bit ridiculous, but as described it seems like such a simple situation to deal with quickly and painlessly. Instead, he felt the need to make a huge ordeal over nothing.

IMO, this is how it should have gone:

5-0: Sir, I see you are carrying a weapon. I'd like to talk to you about that.
Civvy: Yeah, I live right down the street. Just got back from target practice and ran to the store for a pack of smokes.
5-0: With your gun?
Civvy: Yeah, sorry if that caused any alarm. Just didn't see any point in taking it off for a quick errand.
5-0: Can I see some ID sir?
Civvy: Seriously man? For not breaking the law in my own neighborhood?
5-0: We had a couple calls about a man with a gun. I'm just making sure your neighborhood is safe.
Civvy: Yeah, ok. Here. Like I said, I live right over there.
5-0: Alright, thanks for your cooperation. Have a good one.
Civvy: You too.

I know at least half the forum would foam at the mouth over that sort of exchange. I think of it as a nice interaction in a civilized society with gun ownership. Call me crazy.