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Old 06-04-2017, 12:22 PM   #201
JayTeeMe
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

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Why on earth would people in Minnesota be gung ho for a border wall? The people who live on the border don't want it ffs.
Umm, cuz they don't like pressing '1 for English' when they call the cable company? Thought that was implied.
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Old 06-04-2017, 12:43 PM   #202
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Someone ought to remind them that the whole reason they are in the middle of the country is that their goofy-language speaking ancestors weren't welcomed on the east coast.
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Old 06-04-2017, 01:53 PM   #203
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

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Rob Bottin the special fx guy did this scene as well.


I got that beat.

Spoiler:
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Old 06-04-2017, 01:53 PM   #204
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

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In the South I'm guessing is what you mean? Yeah I bet. And at least in the midwest I know there are plenty of small town outliers.
Not sure about the south i live in north east rural flyover land. Id look at college diversity numbers since the more diverse a town is the more tolerance they should show to diversity.
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Old 06-04-2017, 02:04 PM   #205
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

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FDR most likely wins post-1900 charisma (pretty hard to judge earlier w/o video and audio).

IIRC he did ok for himself.

Seems like Lincoln wasn't exactly a cold fish.

It makes sense in the long run. You want to back a horse that you think is going to win. Humans get together and agree on the characteristics that they admire in a tribe leader, people respond to those characteristics and rally around that person.

Evolution turns it into a self-fulfilling prophecy, like looks. You want your offspring to not only survive and be healthy, but procreate. So you want them to look like the kind of individuals that other individuals would procreate with, etc.
In addition to being completely circular, I don't think this is really true as a matter of historical fact. In small scale societies, the political leaders are usually older folks who are trusted in the community, are thought of as wise, and who are from the economic upper strata. Even in the pre-mass-politics era, most of the politically powerful people would have been chosen mostly for their ability and loyalty (from among the narrow caste of eligible people determined by birth). For example, a 17th century king is not going to choose his finance minister because he's the tallest candidate or for his fetching hairstyle, he's going to choose the finance minister he thinks can come up with money to fund the army.

It's mostly when you get into big democracies, and especially mass media democracies, where "charisma," which is basically a euphemism for the dark triad personality traits, becomes important over actual qualifications. It's not a coincidence that FDR, Mr. Charisma, was also a notorious schemer who played all of his advisors off against each other and, most famously, went to his grave not having told his successor Truman about the atomic bomb. Also not a coincidence that charismatic Bill Clinton was, at a minimum, an epic philanderer and has at least been accused of being a rapist. Charismatic Trump's only notable qualities are an epic level of narcissism and a freakish talent for flattering people's hatreds and insecurities.
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Old 06-04-2017, 06:04 PM   #206
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Seems remiss not to mention the doube jaw when discussing alien. Was it in the original Alien?

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Old 06-04-2017, 07:25 PM   #207
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

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Your list needs more Kubrik then just Full Metal Jacket, imo. "Open the pod bay doors, Hal," and ofc the opening jump cut when the ape throws a bone in the air which becomes the space station in 2001 deserve at least an honorable mention.
Yep both good. My list was very drunkenly hastily compiled.
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Old 06-04-2017, 07:31 PM   #208
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

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Seems remiss not to mention the doube jaw when discussing alien. Was it in the original Alien?
Yeah it pops out a couple times.

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Old 06-04-2017, 07:32 PM   #209
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

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In addition to being completely circular, I don't think this is really true as a matter of historical fact. In small scale societies, the political leaders are usually older folks who are trusted in the community, are thought of as wise, and who are from the economic upper strata. Even in the pre-mass-politics era, most of the politically powerful people would have been chosen mostly for their ability and loyalty (from among the narrow caste of eligible people determined by birth). For example, a 17th century king is not going to choose his finance minister because he's the tallest candidate or for his fetching hairstyle, he's going to choose the finance minister he thinks can come up with money to fund the army.

It's mostly when you get into big democracies, and especially mass media democracies, where "charisma," which is basically a euphemism for the dark triad personality traits, becomes important over actual qualifications. It's not a coincidence that FDR, Mr. Charisma, was also a notorious schemer who played all of his advisors off against each other and, most famously, went to his grave not having told his successor Truman about the atomic bomb. Also not a coincidence that charismatic Bill Clinton was, at a minimum, an epic philanderer and has at least been accused of being a rapist. Charismatic Trump's only notable qualities are an epic level of narcissism and a freakish talent for flattering people's hatreds and insecurities.
Right, it's very possible whatever we're calling charisma in political leaders became a much bigger deal in the newsreel era and later.
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Old 06-04-2017, 08:13 PM   #210
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Saw this article about how the DC Metro has become a cautionary tale to transportation experts around the world and it reminded me of this discussion from last month's LC thread:

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this is about new york, but the incompetence of american rail/mass transit agencies is unbelievable https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/01/n...y-signals.html

im not sure it's even a question of money. there are insane amounts spent on ****ty projects. it's mainly just about having no idea what theyre doing.
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Half a century and $20 billion. Jesus.

One day progressives will figure out that the conservative claim that government is awful derives a lot of its appeal to voters from the fact that government actually is crazy awful at a lot of stuff, and then maybe this kind of thing will end.
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Mass transit systems in other countries are built much cheaper, maintained much cheaper and are much more modern while either being government owned and/or government financed.
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Originally Posted by bobman0330 View Post
Maybe that's why voters in other countries support higher taxes and bigger government.
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Yeah, that's a weird take. Most civilized govts do mass transit fairly well.
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I wonder what % of Americans have even experienced a decent or nice public transit system. Many cities in the U.S. do not invest heavily in their systems and you can really tell. So many people here may have the experience that public transit is just going to suck, and you might as well accept that.
Topically, I visited Europe last month and was pretty blown away by the wonders of the Paris metro. Tickets are $1.65 (at current exchange rate), trains are fast and come often, and the network covers the city so densely that it felt anytime we were going somewhere, we were within a few blocks of a station and could get anywhere else in the city with between 0-2 transfers.

The idea of taking an Uber anywhere became stupid, because the metro is so good. Then I came home to the city that birthed Uber and realized how much different (and better) life could be here if we had a transportation system that actually felt like it could take you places, instead of a more expensive system ($2.25 tickets) of mostly slow buses where any trip involving a transfer is likely to be in the ~hour range. I'm fascinated by how some transit systems can be so good while others can be so dysfunctional; what are they doing differently? Why does the US in particular seem to suck at it (though I've never experienced NYC's which is supposed to be good?)?

One caveat: there is clearly not a French with Disabilities Act, because it is not possible to get around those stations in a wheelchair. (Stockholm had a good metro too though, with elevators at all stations that I saw)
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Old 06-04-2017, 08:24 PM   #211
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

San Francisco population density: 7,174/km
New York: 10,831/km
Paris: 21,000/km
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Old 06-04-2017, 08:46 PM   #212
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Los Angeles has an extensive system of electric street cars if this map from the 1940s is accurate.

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Old 06-04-2017, 09:48 PM   #213
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Is this liberal elite, or just city life?

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Old 06-04-2017, 09:56 PM   #214
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

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Is this liberal elite, or just city life?

You can tell the people who live in this beautiful mansion are not elitists because of the overalls, tattoos and flamethrower.



And their Cadillac is a pick up truck.

Last edited by microbet; 06-04-2017 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 06-04-2017, 11:17 PM   #215
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

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Saw this article about how the DC Metro has become a cautionary tale to transportation experts around the world and it reminded me of this discussion from last month's LC thread:

This saddens me personally; I remember using the Metro waaay back in the day and thought it was decent and even ~4 years ago I was using it to commute and it kinda wasn't that bad, but these days the whole system is just FUBAR and a national embarrassment for the capital city of a 1st-world nation.

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I'm fascinated by how some transit systems can be so good while others can be so dysfunctional; what are they doing differently? Why does the US in particular seem to suck at it (though I've never experienced NYC's which is supposed to be good?)?
DC is kind of a special case in dysfunction in that it's subject to grossly incompetent federal oversight that can override local control plus it's got a huge black population so you know civil services get massively ****ed over at every opportunity.
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Old 06-05-2017, 12:27 AM   #216
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

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San Francisco population density: 7,174/km
New York: 10,831/km
Paris: 21,000/km
Yeah, Parisians definitely get more bang for their buck than we would. This is what SF's train system looks like, fwiw (using my best mspaint skills on a map of population density):



Red = Muni trains (city), orange = BART (connects to east bay). BART is subway the whole way, but most of the Muni trains basically become street-level trams (so, much slower) as soon as you get out of the downtown Market Street corridor.

Most of the population north of Golden Gate Park (including me ) thus have buses as their only transit option. I get that less density means we don't deserve to have quite as nice things as Paris, but as you pointed out we aren't far off NYC in that category and our transit is not even a contest against theirs.
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Old 06-05-2017, 12:34 AM   #217
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

San Francisco assembling a collection of vintage streetcars from around the country (world even) is like the greatest thing ever.

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Old 06-05-2017, 12:40 AM   #218
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

The Richmond District? You might as well live in Walnut Creek bro.
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Old 06-05-2017, 12:49 AM   #219
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

That's kinda true. I live near the Marina though.

Random London-related thing that doesn't seem like it should go in the London thread since it's more about the American news media - dunno how many of you watched the NBA Finals game tonight but leading into it, ABC had a promo for Good Morning America tomorrow. It was set to slightly chilling music and had a voice recruited straight from horror movie trailers and said something like "Manchester - London - Britain has been attacked! Are you safe?" with photos of cops carrying rifles and **** like that. "Tune in to Good Morning America tomorrow to find out!"

We. Are. All. ****ed. Go **** yourself ABC, that **** is awful. They want us to be afraid, which incidentally is a goal of ISIS as well!
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Old 06-05-2017, 01:16 AM   #220
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

SF Metro's problem is most of the trains have to run above ground as well as underground - so they're subject to traffic and get backed up. NY Subway doesn't have to contend with that.
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Old 06-05-2017, 06:16 AM   #221
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

I think a factor in North America's generally ****ty transit is that most American cities had major population growth after cars where widely available. Places where the infrastructure was built specifically to allow cars to get around will have a very hard time unwinding all that to put in place a mass transit system based on efficient underground trains. In densely populated areas full of streets that are designed for cars, the timelines for building a subway line is going to be decades. Very few politicians have an appetite for projects that will introduce a ton of road closures and taxes now so that there will be a good subway system in 30 years. By contrast, a place like Paris opened their subway in 1900 when the population was in the millions. This is also true of NYs relatively good subway system, which opened in 1904, 4 years before the Model T went into production.

Other American cities that didn't have populations dense enough to support transit systems in the early 1900s ended up with buses because it's a lot easier to put buses on roads that already exist than it is to tear up roads and houses to build a subway line.
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Old 06-05-2017, 08:32 AM   #222
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Yeah, the metro is great for Paris itself, which had a larger population in 1901 than it does today. Out in the banlieue, where the growth in the metropolitan area population took place (an extra 2m back then compared to an extra 10m today) the public transport is far worse and relies mostly on buses and overground trains with a few tram lines. There's plans to build new metro lines in the banlieue over the next decade, but we'll see.

As I understand it, though, the US actually got rid of public transport systems at times. Paris had a great head start, but it certainly had to continue to invest in the metro as a solution for most of its citizens a large proportion of the time over the last 100-odd years. The quality of service and price of a metro ticket (or monthly pass as most people who live here have) is always an issue in local politics.
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Old 06-05-2017, 09:16 AM   #223
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Workplace shooting here in Orlando, multiple fatalities being reported
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Old 06-05-2017, 09:25 AM   #224
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

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This saddens me personally; I remember using the Metro waaay back in the day and thought it was decent and even ~4 years ago I was using it to commute and it kinda wasn't that bad, but these days the whole system is just FUBAR and a national embarrassment for the capital city of a 1st-world nation.
9 people were killed by WMATA back in 2009 due to faulty maintenance. Not ideal.

More generally, low urban density in the U.S. is definitely a problem, but paradoxically U.S. construction costs for new projects are also the highest in the world. U.S. subways had to be built out more recently, but somehow the infrastructure is more antiquated. U.S. subways are generally less automated than in other countries (very interesting list here) but also more dangerous. U.S. standards for rolling stock are backwards and out of touch with global best practice. Buses are second-class citizens to cars and are solely for poor people, not a part of the transit infrastructure.
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Old 06-05-2017, 09:28 AM   #225
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Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

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Originally Posted by zikzak View Post
San Francisco population density: 7,174/km
New York: 10,831/km
Paris: 21,000/km
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson View Post
This saddens me personally; I remember using the Metro waaay back in the day and thought it was decent and even ~4 years ago I was using it to commute and it kinda wasn't that bad, but these days the whole system is just FUBAR and a national embarrassment for the capital city of a 1st-world nation.



DC is kind of a special case in dysfunction in that it's subject to grossly incompetent federal oversight that can override local control plus it's got a huge black population so you know civil services get massively ****ed over at every opportunity.
Population density in the DC metro area: 419/km. DC isn't going to get decent metro until they say **** you to all the suburbanites and white flighters and just concentrate on getting the city transit in order, then working outwards from there. Instead they're building lines out to ****ing Loudoun County, which is further away from the city than Baltimore.
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