Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Politics political discourse

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-04-2017, 08:14 AM   #151
suzzer99
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 80,770
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllCowsEatGrass View Post
I'm trying to figure out if Trump is supposed to be more charismatic than Clinton, but now I'm sad I started thinking about America.
Come on man. Even before the election I remember thinking - well HRC will win and put that whole charisma thing to rest.

Trump is a lot of terrible horrible things, but he has a reasonable amount of charisma. Whereas HRC can't do a whole lot of normal things w/o seeming like an automaton.

I think Hillary would have made a very good president, and she obviously destroyed Trump every debate. But charisma, she is lacking.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 08:17 AM   #152
suzzer99
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 80,770
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1 View Post
Just saying I think you guys missed with the argument about charisma and it's really the unseen miasmas which create an unseen but powerful energy force that surrounds the candidates which determines the winner. Trump clearly just had the miasmas on his side as was plain to everyone and we should make sure we nominate someone who can channel this force next time. It's a simple heuristic and has yet to fail, so obvious, let's get with the program. This 1980s music video should lay to rest any doubts.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 08:25 AM   #153
AllCowsEatGrass
adept
 
AllCowsEatGrass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 712
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Come on m'lady. Even before the election I remember thinking - well HRC will win and put that whole charisma thing to rest.

Trump is a lot of terrible horrible things, but he has a reasonable amount of charisma. Whereas HRC can't do a whole lot of normal things w/o seeming like an automaton.

I think Hillary would have made a very good president, and she obviously destroyed Trump every debate. But charisma, she is lacking.

But the thing you are forgetting is that the deciding factor of the election was not the individual charisma of the candidates.
AllCowsEatGrass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 08:27 AM   #154
suzzer99
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 80,770
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

wat
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 08:32 AM   #155
daca
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: get by
Posts: 7,822
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Neil deGrasse Tyson - 2020!
he's terrible at twitter
daca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 08:35 AM   #156
DVaut1
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DVaut1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ann Arbor
Posts: 27,165
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
No one's arguing Clinton should do a comedy tour now that her political career is over. There were two candidates in this race; it wasn't simply a referendum on Hillary's likability versus a blank slate opponent. Measurements of public opinion (flawed though they might be) proved time and again HRC was viewed as more likable and more favorably than Trump. You can say well that doesn't count but apparently what does is this tweet and a David Lee Roth video. »\_(ツ)_/»

I can't argue with an unfalsifiable belief so you win I guess. Trying to disabuse people of things they desperately want to believe without evidence is your pastime, not mine.
DVaut1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 08:39 AM   #157
AllCowsEatGrass
adept
 
AllCowsEatGrass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 712
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1 View Post
Just saying I think you guys missed with the argument about charisma and it's really the unseen miasmas which create an unseen but powerful energy force that surrounds the candidates which determines the winner. Trump clearly just had the miasmas on his side as was plain to everyone and we should make sure we nominate someone who can channel this force next time. It's a simple heuristic and has yet to fail, so obvious, let's get with the program. This 1980s music video should lay to rest any doubts:



Miasma ratings out the wahzoo.


More more more!




He reminds me of Spike from Buffy The Vampire Slayer.




Ok so miasma. Ok go. Who's got the miasma in this scene?






Now, I'll admit I'm biased, but to me it looks like a young up and coming superstar actor gets overshadowed and made to look like an amateur by a simple drug addicted rock star.


On a semi related note, I was always more of a Nick Cave fan




Last edited by AllCowsEatGrass; 06-04-2017 at 08:40 AM. Reason: he's a fat little insect! a fat little insect! he's in his birthday suit!
AllCowsEatGrass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 08:41 AM   #158
All-In Flynn
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
All-In Flynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 9,128
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
I get what you're saying that we tend to look back on the winner as obviously the one with more charisma. I will grant I don't know **** about Humphrey's charisma. But still if I look at that list for every candidate I experienced personally, it seems pretty obvious the candidate with more charisma won.
It seems weird that for eg Bush and Trump, 'charisma' as a quality can navigate the electoral college. I mean, if you told me this charismatic theory, I'd predict sight unseen that it would hold true for the popular vote. How can the more charismatic candidate win because of their charisma, but get fewer votes?
All-In Flynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 08:44 AM   #159
DVaut1
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DVaut1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ann Arbor
Posts: 27,165
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Charisma cut right into the television sets of Wisconsin and Ohio but California and New York were left unaware of Trump's powerfully charismatic charms.
DVaut1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 08:48 AM   #160
suzzer99
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 80,770
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by daca View Post
he's terrible at twitter
Damn if that's the new standard. Ok Mark Cuban then.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 08:48 AM   #161
jalfrezi
Pooh-Bah
 
jalfrezi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: long gone, long long gone
Posts: 5,572
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
And doesn't even make sense as a joke either. You don't throw glass at glass houses to break them ldo. Embarrassed for her.
jalfrezi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 08:51 AM   #162
suzzer99
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 80,770
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by All-In Flynn View Post
It seems weird that for eg Bush and Trump, 'charisma' as a quality can navigate the electoral college. I mean, if you told me this charismatic theory, I'd predict sight unseen that it would hold true for the popular vote. How can the more charismatic candidate win because of their charisma, but get fewer votes?
Is there one of those candidates I posted that you were alive for the election - where you would say no the loser had more charisma? I've been aware since Carter/Ford and I believe that not one would I have said that before hand.

I mean - Reagan, Slick Willie, Obama - we can all agree those are oozing charisma right? And GWB compared to Kerry or Gore? Ok maybe if Gore won we'd think he had more Charisma. I'll give you that's somewhat close. But Kerry? No way.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 08:51 AM   #163
suzzer99
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 80,770
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by All-In Flynn View Post
It seems weird that for eg Bush and Trump, 'charisma' as a quality can navigate the electoral college. I mean, if you told me this charismatic theory, I'd predict sight unseen that it would hold true for the popular vote. How can the more charismatic candidate win because of their charisma, but get fewer votes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1 View Post
Charisma cut right into the television sets of Wisconsin and Ohio but California and New York were left unaware of Trump's powerfully charismatic charms.
These are good points. I will ponder them.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 08:58 AM   #164
DVaut1
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DVaut1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ann Arbor
Posts: 27,165
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

The correct answer might be that you have a valid point but that a certain attractiveness or charm which can inspire devotion in others is very important for politicians in the television era. But that it is a relative characteristic rather than an objective one (e.g, white guys find Trump very charismatic, everyone else not so much).

It also might help explain the 2p2 consensus (almost uniformly dudes) believe that Trump is clearly more charismatic than HRC while public opinion polls tell a mixed story but that ultimately Trump is slightly more reviled than HRC. If you have a convoluted vote counting system and don't distribute white people and white dudes evenly geographically, you can get this phenomenon where a certain aspect of Trump's charisma (his Andrew Dice Clay insult comic stylings) that appeals to a subset of the electorate (white people) is dispositive and decisive because he won the devotion of people in certain important places.
DVaut1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 08:59 AM   #165
All-In Flynn
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
All-In Flynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 9,128
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Is there one of those candidates I posted that you were alive for the election - where you would say no the loser had more charisma? I've been aware since Carter/Ford and I believe that not one would I have said that before hand.

I mean - Reagan, Slick Willie, Obama - we can all agree those are oozing charisma right? And GWB compared to Kerry or Gore? Ok maybe if Gore won we'd think he had more Charisma. I'll give you that's somewhat close. But Kerry? No way.
The most interesting ones are Nixon, Carter and HW, since they're the ones who have both won and lost an election, unless I'm missing one. When you look at Nixon's loss to Kennedy, remember too that that election was whisker-close. I'll cheerfully say that JFK was manifestly more charismatic than Nixon, which is sort of a problem for the charisma theory given how close the race was.

None of which is to suggest that charisma isn't extremely helpful if you're trying to become POTUS, of course.
All-In Flynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 09:04 AM   #166
Max Cut
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Max Cut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Land of baseball & pie from apples
Posts: 6,236
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

I laughed at Clinton's tweet.
Max Cut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 09:05 AM   #167
jalfrezi
Pooh-Bah
 
jalfrezi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: long gone, long long gone
Posts: 5,572
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllCowsEatGrass View Post
More more more!




He reminds me of Spike from Buffy The Vampire Slayer.




Ok so miasma. Ok go. Who's got the miasma in this scene?






Now, I'll admit I'm biased, but to me it looks like a young up and coming superstar actor gets overshadowed and made to look like an amateur by a simple drug addicted rock star.


On a semi related note, I was always more of a Nick Cave fan



They were a great and exciting live act, but I tried to listen to an old favourite BP album recently and couldn't complete it.
jalfrezi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 09:08 AM   #168
suzzer99
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 80,770
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Yeah I'll concede that obviously charisma can be overcome. But I'll still argue it would be stupid to bet against it.

The NFC in Superbowls and NL in MLB in all-star games have both seen streaks that rival the US election "charisma hypothesis" since 1960. But it doesn't mean the other team couldn't win.

Imagine if a US political party just happened to have the Chicago Cubs' luck for a century. Ugh.

Or imagine if you were a winning player on the high-stakes poker tourney circuit, yet still had a losing lifetime - which is easily possible.

****ing randomness man.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 09:11 AM   #169
DVaut1
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DVaut1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ann Arbor
Posts: 27,165
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by All-In Flynn View Post

None of which is to suggest that charisma isn't extremely helpful if you're trying to become POTUS, of course.
Right. The point isn't that charisma is irrelevant. Obviously it can be and is a huge bonus for people who spend lots of time on TV like a modern politician. I even concede Trump is this sort of compelling personality. But that inspiring devotion and emotion in people is ultimately a relative phenomenon. Trump is almost unquestionably a highly charismatic individual ...for like, 35% of the American audience. The other 65% find him a loathsome despicable idiot. Clearly HRC has both the intense devotion and extreme animosity of lots of people.

That Trump won is surely partly explained by the extreme devotion of some of his followers to his personality. But that's not quite the story "charisma predicts everything" tells. I think there are plenty of people who disliked both candidates and just guessed Trump would get them more stuff or similarly, not give rewards to others they don't like. Trump won partly because his devoted followers (the part his charismatic appeals are responsible for) were in very important swing states, partly because he was able to hitch his wagon the GOP and their innate appeals to people who just want to keep every red cent they earn and care about nothing else, and partly because he riled up enough resentment at immigrants and elites and others that he OVERCAME some portion of the electorate's distaste for him with the belief he would dispense rewards/punishments across highly tribalist lines.
DVaut1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 09:12 AM   #170
AllCowsEatGrass
adept
 
AllCowsEatGrass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 712
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jalfrezi View Post
They were a great and exciting live act, but I tried to listen to an old favourite BP album recently and couldn't complete it.

That's a bummer. People's tastes in music change over time.

Did you see them play?
AllCowsEatGrass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 09:14 AM   #171
Max Cut
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Max Cut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Land of baseball & pie from apples
Posts: 6,236
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

All hail Randomness!

Spoiler:
Max Cut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 09:15 AM   #172
jalfrezi
Pooh-Bah
 
jalfrezi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: long gone, long long gone
Posts: 5,572
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllCowsEatGrass View Post
That's a bummer. People's tastes in music change over time.

Did you see them play?
Yeah, supporting The Fall when they first came to the UK and were causing quite a stir. They had a firebreather stage front who added something to the occasion. I rushed out to buy Release The Bats and subsequently all their records, but to my ears at least they haven't aged well.
jalfrezi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 09:18 AM   #173
AllCowsEatGrass
adept
 
AllCowsEatGrass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 712
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Holy ****, lucky you!

I think they still sound great! Most of my favorite Nick Cave stuff is the later Bad Seeds records though.



Last edited by AllCowsEatGrass; 06-04-2017 at 09:23 AM. Reason: I found her on a night of fire and noise ...
AllCowsEatGrass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 09:23 AM   #174
bobman0330
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
bobman0330's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 22,852
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Trump just tweeted an attack on London's mayor less than 24 hours after a terrorist attack in London!
bobman0330 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2017, 09:32 AM   #175
DVaut1
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DVaut1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ann Arbor
Posts: 27,165
Re: Juno is a top notch neutrino observatory (LC Thread)

It's painful to watch the right-wing up to the President literally do the terrorists job for them and try to rile up as much fear as possible. London's mayor responsibly tries to portray a message of calm and stability and these guys like Trump and Fox News and all the "Islam LOL religion of peace" guys try to goad everyone into senseless panic.
DVaut1 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online