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06-19-2017 , 11:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
I'm fine with being called a liberal. I really hate when people assume that means I'm a Democrat.
This seems like the equivalent of Hannity insisting that he's not a Republican.
06-19-2017 , 11:10 PM
It should be a rule that liberal posters must self ban for a week if they are compared to Hannity.
06-19-2017 , 11:13 PM
06-20-2017 , 12:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobman0330
I want a consumption tax!

EDIT: Oh yeah, zero minimum wage too. Abolish green energy subsidies in favor of carbon tax. Weaken the FDA!
Pretty much every country has a VAT, so it can't really be that unliberal. Denmark, Norway, Finland, etc.
06-20-2017 , 01:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1
Yea but how do the economic poles work?

If I believe in more government intervention in the economy via higher taxes and redistribution, am I economically conservative or liberal? Liberal can mean the former but it can also mean less government intervention.

Also given its entrenchment as status quo is not someone who is a economic neoliberal economically conservative?

Im sure if you asked a ton of Texas homies who believed in small government etc they would describe themselves as economically conservative tho.
Americans use the word 'liberal' differently. Because they don't have the equivalent of a Labour Party, anyone who advocates more government intervention in the economy via higher taxes and redistribution is a 'liberal' (though the dreaded 'Socialist' word is becoming more popular (and misused) post-Bernie).

Most of the rest of the world (possibly excluding Australia/NZ) understands that there are different dimensions: one Left to Right axis, another axis for liberal to authoritarian and a third axis for nationalism to internationalism. In the US they try to cram three different dimensions into one (probably because until recently no major politican has advocated Bernie style redistribution and almost everyone's a flag-waving nationalist), hence the confusion.

Last edited by jalfrezi; 06-20-2017 at 01:53 AM.
06-20-2017 , 03:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
"Libertarians" who vote Democrat are basically just liberals trying to make it clear they understand Econ 101. I was in that category for a while, then I realized that instead of calling myself a libertarian and then listing 56,223 exceptions, I could just call myself a liberal and then explain that I'm aware of the virtues of the free market as a wealth generation tool.
liberal in the european (and maybe australian but they seem fairly conservative) sense works fine. i doubt ive ever called myself libertarian because it's such an american thing.

basically give money to poor people, but not massive subsidies to middle class people. focus on fewer issue where government should play a part and mainly stay out of the rest. regulate/tax externalities. let uber live etc.

like one of the main european issues in forever has been how easy it should be to hire and fire people. it's what the french are going to riot over later this summer when macron tries to change labour market laws and it's what the germans have been trying to push on southern europe throughout the crisis. the entire left thinks it's a terrible idea and theyre just wrong.

i would say be more switzerland than finland, but i have no idea how country actually works.
06-20-2017 , 04:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
So it seems to be a "naive" approach to coding liberalism/conservationism, it doesn't ask what "interventionist" government vs a "non interventionist" government actually means so it's a bit of using code words to signal intent. Which I mean, fair enough, because that's how most politics works. Case in point, Republicans still love Medicare/Medicaid and absolutely hate "government intervention".

I think an issue with the survey is the endogeneity problem. People are ignorant of specific policy and look towards to parties for guidance so Alaska and Texas both have the very interventionist, big government idea of sovereign wealth funds, but local Republicans almost never attack it as such and many times actually support it because it's not coded as government intervention for those specific states. See also Obamacare as a Republican idea or an imaginary federal sovereign wealth fund proposed by Democrats.
There's no way those dots group so densely in the bottom left without the questions/answers being really fuzzy.
06-20-2017 , 09:30 AM
I am fine when autistic white guys all get together and live in a big boat at sea, but I really hate when people assume that means I'm a libertarian.
06-20-2017 , 09:38 AM
#NotAllSeasteaders
06-20-2017 , 05:22 PM
german politics seems so innocent
Quote:
Four years ago, the German chancellor’s ruling Christian Democratic Union practically eliminated the national flag and its colours from its Bundestag campaign material, worried about looking too conservative for modern Germans.
Quote:
As nationalist sentiment is on the rise in countries with which Germany has important relationships — from the US to Poland — reaching for the national colours is a way for the chancellor to show that she is not shy of putting German interests first.

The centre-right party’s campaign “will be a bit more patriotic than before”, Peter Tauber, the CDU’s general secretary and the man who will orchestrate the campaign, tells the Financial Times. “Because we are in times where rightwing populists are stronger and we don’t want to leave patriotism to these people.”
Quote:
With a €20m campaign budget, the CDU has again invested in a top-flight advertising agency
Quote:
Despite the CDU’s flag-waving to neuter any threat from the AfD on the right, Ms Merkel’s campaign will largely focus on where she has built her career — the middle ground of German politics.
Quote:
Mr Meyer says he does not expect big surprises from the CDU. He says that while voters recognise that Germany needs some changes — such as the SPD’s welfare-increasing proposals — they don’t want them at a time of global uncertainty. “People don’t want to start overhauling the ship in a storm,” he says. “They want first to get into calm waters.”
https://www.ft.com/content/47969426-...66969?mhq5j=e1
06-20-2017 , 08:10 PM
Phoenix confirmed hot af. Didn't quite make it to 120 though.
06-20-2017 , 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uDevil
Phoenix confirmed hot af. Didn't quite make it to 120 though.
Bottle your sweat and toss it on the Senate floor.
06-20-2017 , 08:32 PM
Heard some airlines have cancelled flights in Phoenix due to the heat
06-20-2017 , 08:51 PM
Yeah 50 American flights

Quote:
According to a statement from American Airlines, the American Eagle regional flights use the Bombardier CRJ aircraft, which has a maximum operating temperature of 118 degrees. Tuesday's forecast for Phoenix includes a high of 120 degrees, and the flights that are affected were to take off between 3 and 6 p.m.
http://www.azcentral.com/story/trave...hts/409634001/

I grew up here but 20 min walk followed by 20 min in car wo AC wiped me out.
06-20-2017 , 09:08 PM
Why a car with no AC? Get a loan to fix it if you have to!
06-20-2017 , 10:01 PM
.
06-20-2017 , 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
Pretty much every country has a VAT, so it can't really be that unliberal. Denmark, Norway, Finland, etc.
In lieu of an income tax though! I'm so far to the right we can barely understand each other!
06-20-2017 , 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib
Why a car with no AC? Get a loan to fix it if you have to!
Thanks for the concern. AC works, if not well, but I was afraid the car would overheat and that would have really sucked so I left it off. At 110 F it's not really a problem, but today was next level hot.

If global average temperature increases by 2 C, things will get interesting around here.

Last edited by uDevil; 06-20-2017 at 11:00 PM.
06-20-2017 , 11:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobman0330
In lieu of an income tax though! I'm so far to the right we can barely understand each other!
I wouldn't have guessed this of you. I'm sure you're well aware of the hyper-regressive nature of consumption taxes, why do you support that over more progressive schemes like income taxes?
06-21-2017 , 12:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobman0330
In lieu of an income tax though! I'm so far to the right we can barely understand each other!
It depends on the structure. If you leave off some basic necessities a consumption tax could be more progressive than the current graduated income tax. I think from a liberal(progressive more accurate here I think) v. conservative pov the relevant thing is who is paying the taxes, not so much what the mechanism is. If you include consumption of financial instruments, consumption of corporations, consumption of land....it could be very progressive.
06-21-2017 , 12:07 AM
I can imagine progressive consumption taxes in the abstract and make it seem like a good idea. Not so sure about the real world.
06-21-2017 , 12:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
I can imagine progressive consumption taxes in the abstract and make it seem like a good idea. Not so sure about the real world.
I should look this up before posting. I will after. But, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Venezuela, Bolivia, Peru....California has the highest state sales tax....
06-21-2017 , 12:27 AM
Eh, after a little research I think leaving off food and rent and making sure to tax things like buying stocks could be pretty progressive. There's some talk in the progressive VAT circles about refunding the first $x of taxes.

I would love it if I never had to file taxes again.

But, it seems like the Democratic Socialist countries take from everyone with the VAT and then make up for it with social services.
06-21-2017 , 02:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
Not so sure about the real world.
This is a question that routinely bugs me. Should, for example, I register as the party I typically vote for, or as the party I'd prefer but recognize won't actually work in the real world?
06-21-2017 , 03:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib
This is a question that routinely bugs me. Should, for example, I register as the party I typically vote for, or as the party I'd prefer but recognize won't actually work in the real world?
I'm not sure what the answer to this question is , but i know you're much more of an idealist than I am.

      
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