Come on man. Even before the election I remember thinking - well HRC will win and put that whole charisma thing to rest.

Trump is a lot of terrible horrible things, but he has a reasonable amount of charisma. Whereas HRC can't do a whole lot of normal things w/o seeming like an automaton.

I think Hillary would have made a very good president, and she obviously destroyed Trump every debate. But charisma, she is lacking.

Tweeted a day and a half after covfefe had already become passé. Wouldn't even have been funny in the first hour after Trump's tweet. Such cringe. Wow.

But the thing you are forgetting is that the deciding factor of the election was not the individual charisma of the candidates.

wat

he's terrible at twitter

No one's arguing Clinton should do a comedy tour now that her political career is over. There were two candidates in this race; it wasn't simply a referendum on Hillary's likability versus a blank slate opponent. Measurements of public opinion (flawed though they might be) proved time and again HRC was viewed as more likable and more favorably than Trump. You can say well that doesn't count but apparently what does is this tweet and a David Lee Roth video. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I can't argue with an unfalsifiable belief so you win I guess. Trying to disabuse people of things they desperately want to believe without evidence is your pastime, not mine.

More more more!




He reminds me of Spike from Buffy The Vampire Slayer.




Ok so miasma. Ok go. Who's got the miasma in this scene?






Now, I'll admit I'm biased, but to me it looks like a young up and coming superstar actor gets overshadowed and made to look like an amateur by a simple drug addicted rock star.


On a semi related note, I was always more of a Nick Cave fan

It seems weird that for eg Bush and Trump, 'charisma' as a quality can navigate the electoral college. I mean, if you told me this charismatic theory, I'd predict sight unseen that it would hold true for the popular vote. How can the more charismatic candidate win because of their charisma, but get fewer votes?

Charisma cut right into the television sets of Wisconsin and Ohio but California and New York were left unaware of Trump's powerfully charismatic charms.

Damn if that's the new standard. Ok Mark Cuban then.

And doesn't even make sense as a joke either. You don't throw glass at glass houses to break them ldo. Embarrassed for her.

Is there one of those candidates I posted that you were alive for the election - where you would say no the loser had more charisma? I've been aware since Carter/Ford and I believe that not one would I have said that before hand.

I mean - Reagan, Slick Willie, Obama - we can all agree those are oozing charisma right? And GWB compared to Kerry or Gore? Ok maybe if Gore won we'd think he had more Charisma. I'll give you that's somewhat close. But Kerry? No way.

These are good points. I will ponder them.

The correct answer might be that you have a valid point but that a certain attractiveness or charm which can inspire devotion in others is very important for politicians in the television era. But that it is a relative characteristic rather than an objective one (e.g, white guys find Trump very charismatic, everyone else not so much).

It also might help explain the 2p2 consensus (almost uniformly dudes) believe that Trump is clearly more charismatic than HRC while public opinion polls tell a mixed story but that ultimately Trump is slightly more reviled than HRC. If you have a convoluted vote counting system and don't distribute white people and white dudes evenly geographically, you can get this phenomenon where a certain aspect of Trump's charisma (his Andrew Dice Clay insult comic stylings) that appeals to a subset of the electorate (white people) is dispositive and decisive because he won the devotion of people in certain important places.

The most interesting ones are Nixon, Carter and HW, since they're the ones who have both won and lost an election, unless I'm missing one. When you look at Nixon's loss to Kennedy, remember too that that election was whisker-close. I'll cheerfully say that JFK was manifestly more charismatic than Nixon, which is sort of a problem for the charisma theory given how close the race was.

None of which is to suggest that charisma isn't extremely helpful if you're trying to become POTUS, of course.

I laughed at Clinton's tweet.

They were a great and exciting live act, but I tried to listen to an old favourite BP album recently and couldn't complete it.

Yeah I'll concede that obviously charisma can be overcome. But I'll still argue it would be stupid to bet against it.

The NFC in Superbowls and NL in MLB in all-star games have both seen streaks that rival the US election "charisma hypothesis" since 1960. But it doesn't mean the other team couldn't win.

Imagine if a US political party just happened to have the Chicago Cubs' luck for a century. Ugh.

Or imagine if you were a winning player on the high-stakes poker tourney circuit, yet still had a losing lifetime - which is easily possible.

****ing randomness man.

Right. The point isn't that charisma is irrelevant. Obviously it can be and is a huge bonus for people who spend lots of time on TV like a modern politician. I even concede Trump is this sort of compelling personality. But that inspiring devotion and emotion in people is ultimately a relative phenomenon. Trump is almost unquestionably a highly charismatic individual ...for like, 35% of the American audience. The other 65% find him a loathsome despicable idiot. Clearly HRC has both the intense devotion and extreme animosity of lots of people.

That Trump won is surely partly explained by the extreme devotion of some of his followers to his personality. But that's not quite the story "charisma predicts everything" tells. I think there are plenty of people who disliked both candidates and just guessed Trump would get them more stuff or similarly, not give rewards to others they don't like. Trump won partly because his devoted followers (the part his charismatic appeals are responsible for) were in very important swing states, partly because he was able to hitch his wagon the GOP and their innate appeals to people who just want to keep every red cent they earn and care about nothing else, and partly because he riled up enough resentment at immigrants and elites and others that he OVERCAME some portion of the electorate's distaste for him with the belief he would dispense rewards/punishments across highly tribalist lines.

That's a bummer. People's tastes in music change over time.

Did you see them play?

All hail Randomness!

Yeah, supporting The Fall when they first came to the UK and were causing quite a stir. They had a firebreather stage front who added something to the occasion. I rushed out to buy Release The Bats and subsequently all their records, but to my ears at least they haven't aged well.

Holy ****, lucky you!

I think they still sound great! Most of my favorite Nick Cave stuff is the later Bad Seeds records though.

Trump just tweeted an attack on London's mayor less than 24 hours after a terrorist attack in London!

It's painful to watch the right-wing up to the President literally do the terrorists job for them and try to rile up as much fear as possible. London's mayor responsibly tries to portray a message of calm and stability and these guys like Trump and Fox News and all the "Islam LOL religion of peace" guys try to goad everyone into senseless panic.