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July LC thread so PVN will stop posting LAST July LC thread so PVN will stop posting LAST

07-13-2017 , 09:45 PM
Median US income: $30k
Per capita GDP: $57.5k
Employment rate: 67%

The median US worker gets to keep ~35% of the wealth their labor generates.
07-13-2017 , 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
And it costs like $200k+ to get the job training to be a professor. If all that were free, with stipends or something, maybe $15/hr at the end of the tunnel wouldn't be so humiliating. Still not much of an indication that the job is valued.

I will pay that much for someone with no experience and not even a HS degree to carry solar panels around.
you would think all these eggheads could figure a cost/benefit analysis
07-13-2017 , 09:50 PM
BTW, note that you don't have to go into academia as a career just because you went to grad school.
07-13-2017 , 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTheCheese
What's outrageous about less than 30k for full time labor the years of training for which may well have put you in debt? Gee, I dunno.
the labor theory of value is still alive and well
07-13-2017 , 09:54 PM
@ACEG: Realistically, six classes will be well over 40 hours/week, so your prof is possibly making less than min wage. You have 18 hours in the class room, another 12+ of office hours. Then you also have grading, prep, student emails, department meetings, etc.
07-13-2017 , 09:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
Median US income: $30k
Per capita GDP: $57.5k
Employment rate: 67%

The median US worker gets to keep ~35% of the wealth their labor generates.

Property is theft.
07-13-2017 , 09:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTheCheese
@ACEG: Realistically, six classes will be well over 40 hours/week, so your prof is possibly making less than min wage. You have 18 hours in the class room, another 12+ of office hours. Then you also have grading, prep, student emails, department meetings, etc.

It was obvious to me that she has great passion for education. I don't think she'd be doing it otherwise. It would be really great if the red state I'm in would value public education rather than oil and gas companies that are plundering the earth.
07-13-2017 , 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
you would think all these eggheads could figure a cost/benefit analysis
Not really. I would think that it would work like professional sports, but to a smaller degree. There are a certain number of people who will get paid reasonably well and get a fair amount of prestige and a lot of respect. I would expect many more people to go for the glory than there are spaces available.
07-13-2017 , 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
BTW, note that you don't have to go into academia as a career just because you went to grad school.
Is that from Uber's recruiting page?
07-13-2017 , 10:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
Not really. I would think that it would work like professional sports, but to a smaller degree. There are a certain number of people who will get paid reasonably well and get a fair amount of prestige and a lot of respect. I would expect many more people to go for the glory than there are spaces available.
OK, so the system is working?
07-13-2017 , 10:03 PM
How is it that I'm just now hearing about this???



(not the pee tape itself, but that the BBC had a source confirming it?)
07-13-2017 , 10:11 PM
I was going to post earlier, but it seemed too /TheDonald or whatever, but there's no way Trump loves Putin or anyone other than himself enough to stay so consistent in favor of Putin. I had thought it was corruption and a shot at Rosneft kind of money, but I don't think he'd be this consistent and he's going to get money out of China anyway. He's afraid of something.

/TheDonald
07-13-2017 , 10:11 PM
I just realized something... all the #stillwithher diehards on team hil that see russian agents under every bed and are still confirmed furious at "bernie bros"... they totally fell for the russkie propaganda campaign hook, line and sinker. They're the very thing they think they're mad at.
07-13-2017 , 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zikzak
Median US income: $30k
Per capita GDP: $57.5k
Employment rate: 67%

The median US worker gets to keep ~35% of the wealth their labor generates.
Good post. However, the situation is far worse than this bar-napkin math suggests, since the analysis here completely excludes stored wealth (both physical assets and ownership rights over capital) that's transferred within families or by inheritance, which is highly concentrated in the hands of an elite few. There's also a veritable mountain of idle cash hoarded away that could be put toward productive investment, which artificially shrinks GDP. The reality is that real GDP has shown extremely steady growth for the past 60+ years while real wages have stagnated or declined. Meanwhile, corporate profit margins are sky high, and significant portions of wage- and salary-based income goes toward rent and debt service. For these and other related reasons, the nominal median income is a horrible measure of fairness.

Last edited by DrModern; 07-13-2017 at 10:22 PM.
07-13-2017 , 10:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
Is that from Uber's recruiting page?
ZING

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvn
I just realized something... all the #stillwithher diehards on team hil that see russian agents under every bed and are still confirmed furious at "bernie bros"... they totally fell for the russkie propaganda campaign hook, line and sinker. They're the very thing they think they're mad at.
the irony of #stillWithHer is that she was never with anyone else. She didn't care how damaged her goods were or how much the country disliked her. She willingly subjected us to Trump because she thought she deserved the presidency, that she was owed it and didn't even have to work for it.

Trump may be a greedy ****, but never let it be said that he didn't work his ass off for the presidency. He thought he was down and he campaigned more and harder. It payed off. (Plus many other things, of course)
07-13-2017 , 10:33 PM
Move up to where they respect ur Twilight thesis imo.
07-13-2017 , 10:47 PM
Hey, at least post-doc'ing is interesting and enriching as hell!








...well, at least in STEM!









...well at least at R1 UNIs!









...well, at least at top-rated R1s!








...well, at least if you love salt mining!
07-13-2017 , 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib
ZING



the irony of #stillWithHer is that she was never with anyone else. She didn't care how damaged her goods were or how much the country disliked her. She willingly subjected us to Trump because she thought she deserved the presidency, that she was owed it and didn't even have to work for it.
No
07-14-2017 , 12:13 AM
LOL Fox



07-14-2017 , 12:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllCowsEatGrass
It's so little money, that's what's outrageous about it. It's like $15 dollars an hour. How is that not outrageous?
That's fine - if you have a great teacher you think is underpaid, that seems reasonable. I was myself at one point an adjunct and a lot of my colleagues would complain about how poorly paid they were, but they were actually making a fairly average income at a more fulfilling job than eg working in retail or many service jobs. To me, a lot of them seemed to assume that because they were smarter and better educated than average that they should be paid more than average as well. Meh.

Quote:
edit: Aren't you the guy that was ****ting on music and art education in public schools a couple months ago?
Not that I recall, don't really have an opinion on that one way or the other.
07-14-2017 , 12:18 AM
I'm not sure the relevance of measuring things by cranes the birds or cranes the machines.
07-14-2017 , 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTheCheese
lol.

(1) Your pool appears to be all people age 15 and up, including ~90 million people who earn less than 15k, i.e. less than full time labor at the federal minimum wage, so presumably includes unemployed people and part timers. The median income for full time workers is $865/week or about 45k per year, so no, less than 30k is not fine.
You seem to multiplying that weekly median wage by 52 weeks, but the school year is usually 32 weeks. Bump it up to 40 to include prep and grading and you have around 35k a year as the comparable median. So, sure, it seems reasonable to complain about that.

Quote:
(2) Most people including many professors don't know or are not honest and realistic about job prospects after grad school ime. That is changing as more and more PhDs become alienated with the system, but it's by no means obvious or common knowledge currently that the result of years of specialized training at a well-respected school (sometimes at personal expense, although not in my case) will be hustling to earn a living wage.
I suppose, but I think this is fairly well known now. I'm not outraged that people who are smart enough to get a Ph.D can't be bothered to research the job potential of that Ph.D. Seems pretty foolish if they don't.

Quote:
(3) You can be outraged by exploitation, even if the person's own decisons led them to be susceptible to it. This should go without saying on a left wing politics forum.
Okay.
07-14-2017 , 12:41 AM
Cranes the machines = they're building lots of **** there
07-14-2017 , 01:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Original Position
You seem to multiplying that weekly median wage by 52 weeks, but the school year is usually 32 weeks. Bump it up to 40 to include prep and grading and you have around 35k a year as the comparable median. So, sure, it seems reasonable to complain about that.
I wouldn't assume she's not working in the summer as well. An adjunct at my old job said he got $2100 per course. A google search confirms this as reasonable. With that pay, it would take teaching a load of six, six, and three summer to break 30k, and that will certainly end up being at least as many hours as a year of 9-5 work.
07-14-2017 , 01:06 AM
It's so weird that college costs a ****ing ton and the people doing the teaching are making peanuts. I'm guessing it's like every other workplace where the money is being made by baby boomers that have been sitting on their asses in their current jobs for decades?

      
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