Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
To be clear, I said all throughout the primaries that I was much closer to Sanders but strategically, it made sense to support Clinton. Just this weekend I argued that Clinton's loss had no less than half a dozen potential causative variables, from Russia to voter suppression to unfair media scrutiny that would absolve her political posturing. Tactical things (didn't visit Wisconsin) aren't ideological, simply practical. Those may have mattered. But I do think one potential causitive failure leading to her defeat is her failure to really inspire and motivate ideologues on the left. But other variables existed that may have been dispositive. 60k votes is razor thin, etc. etc., anything could have mattered or been decisive on its own, or perhaps all of the stories are true, that literally all of the variables mattered.
So actually, I make no super grand claims about knowing what will win but I am throwing in the towel on risk-averse New Left triangulation centrism or whatever the in vogue term is. It's electoral wisdom is entirely precarious and as someone who wants to see far more leftism in actual policy, I'd rather what wins and power we do accumulate count for something more than just as a buffer against ever more extremist right-wingerism. In fact the whole strategic appeal of the neo liberal order is that the left bargained away a lot of what we would want to keep the regressive, fascist forces at bay. But look at the President, the retrograde GOP, and how much power it has. The old centrist/neoliberal/left consensus failed and it's time to chart new paths. I do not promise success but know only the old bargain provided little durable outcomes but we have a political culture besieged with anger, an almost holistic trash culture and an ascendant populist right movement. We had some successes (gay marriage high-five) but they were few and far between to be honest. Some of the anger is inchoate and unjustified and some is truly righteous, and when I survey the righteous anger, I can underlying it failures that the former New Leftian sort of bargain accepted if not championed.
Here's what I don't understand about your framework. Your view seems to be that the Democratic Party is really a left-wing party that has made a bargain with neo-liberal centrists that they can be party leaders in return for marginal improvements in policy plus holding the GOP at bay. Maybe this describes your own reasoning of why you supported these type of candidates. I also think this is a plausible critique of Blairism. But it doesn't make sense of the Democratic Party. We
already use primaries to select our Presidential candidate, and it is
Democratic voters that have been selecting these neoliberal candidates for decades, including in 2016. Maybe all these voters have been voting strategically like you suggest, but I'm very doubtful. It looks more like they just support those kinds of leaders.
Obviously this could change. Maybe Democratic voters really are shifting more towards the left* and Senator Sanders will win the nomination in 2020. If he does, I'll vote for him in the general. But the Democratic Party will still be the same combination of social democrat and market-friendly liberals we have now, just tilted a bit more towards the social democratic side. Most of the people in the Senate will be the same boring ones we have now. Legislative logic will still give disproportionate influence to those at the margins on close bills. I just don't see any plausible nearby future world where the coalition between the left and the center-left breaks apart without consigning both to long-term minority status. There aren't enough social democratic/democratic socialist types on their own to win power at the national level in the US. You say you are throwing in the towel on this coalition, but what does this mean? You'll be unhappy about supporting the neoliberal candidate who might end up winning in 2020 or '24? Or you think the people will all just decide they like those left-wing candidates after all? If Bernie Sanders wins he should act like the centrist Democratic Senator from x are not actually Democrats? Or is this just a power fantasy like the Chapo Boys going on about centrists swearing fealty to them?
*I do think this claim is overblown on the basis of Sanders' performance in the primaries. Presumably the idea is that he almost won against Hillary, so there really is a lot of support for an openly "socialist" left-wing candidate. But this view is usually coupled with the claim that Hillary was a horrible candidate that somehow couldn't win against an orange clown. Doesn't that make Sanders' relative good showing in the primary less meaningful as a signal for increased support for left-wing leaders in the Democratic Party?
Quote:
Right. See my response to Max. I think the goal here for people that share my worldview is to build the consensus that taking a stronger left turn is wise because it will provide more of what we want and that risk-averse strategies aren't paying off to justify the sacrifices.
I agree the process will play out roughly the same, that the primaries are a large multi-variate process with lots of inputs and millions of atomized decisions.
I assume most people here realize our reach on 2p2 is extremely, extremely limited, basically non-existent but the pose of mini-thought-influencer and chatting on the internet is at least cathartic and entertaining. Obviously the practical, real-world effect ("who are you really talking to?") is basically none. But that could describe ~any post here on any topic about anything.
Sure, obviously I don't object to discussions about politics on the internet. I was talking more about the model of politics that seems to underlie a lot of the discussion here, where political coalitions are a matter of choice rather than necessity. Sanders didn't step aside to let Hillary win because she would be a stronger candidate in the general. He just didn't convince enough voters to support him.