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Old 05-18-2017, 11:38 AM   #126
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet View Post
Obviously the Trump/Impeachment/scandal stuff will be going on, but I think the majority of the Dems messaging should be more like Bernie. Yeah, talk about Trump, but don't stop going back to inequality, justice, health, education, etc. Be for something, not just against.
What's wrong with being for the country? Trump is the biggest threat going right now; to democracy, to world relations, to national security. You know, bipartisan issues. If we can't get Republitards to see that first, they'll never ever be willing to budge on the rest.
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:56 AM   #127
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

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Originally Posted by einbert View Post
You're joking right? It's the winning message. That and the fact that Republicans want to take health care away from millions of people and give tax cuts to the rich. It's a perfect one-two punch.
voters gonna care more about impeachment than their jobs and our economy and all else that affects them?

Hillary almost fully focused on Trump's character at the end and it worked wonders for her.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:04 PM   #128
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

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Mueller's a rock-solid choice for this. Dems should be pleased, but should also be prepared for the possibility that this doesn't produce an ironclad smoking gun against Trump himself.
Of course it will. Not about trump and Russia, but what we've already seen is that trump is fully willing to break the law to try to cover up either no scandals or actual scandals. Get trump under oath and it's guaranteed he perjurs himself. Not that that mattered when sessions did it.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:23 PM   #129
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

Yeah it's tempting to go hard after Trump's character, but that won't work. Everybody knows the kind of person he is and you either love him or hate him. Very few people at this stage will flip one way or another if they've been around this long without wavering.

What they really have to do is point out how the promises he made have either been not kept or even opposed by his actions while in office. Juxtapose his inaction with horrible decisions involving things like healthcare and you've got a winning combination.
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:32 PM   #130
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

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Originally Posted by Noodle Wazlib View Post
Of course it will. Not about trump and Russia, but what we've already seen is that trump is fully willing to break the law to try to cover up either no scandals or actual scandals. Get trump under oath and it's guaranteed he perjurs himself. Not that that mattered when sessions did it.
Sessions had a single lie under oath that we know about. No big deal by Trump scandal standards. He definitely did more and we hope it comes out.

Trump on the other hand literally can't go two sentences without lying. He's balls deep into everything he touched so far. And he has knowledge of dozens of other fishies. The whole Trump train comes off the tracks if he testifies for even 10 minutes.
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:46 PM   #131
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

If Trump resigns the GOP will box up any evidence of any possibility of any wrong doing, light it on fire and set it out to sea, pretend Pence is the immaculate President, and never ask any questions about those 6 months in 2017 ever again.
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Old 05-18-2017, 02:33 PM   #132
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

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If Trump resigns the GOP will box up any evidence of any possibility of any wrong doing, light it on fire and set it out to sea, pretend Pence is the immaculate President, and never ask any questions about those 6 months in 2017 ever again.
On point.
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:15 AM   #133
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

Erick Erickson: Donald Trump Should Resign

https://townhall.com/columnists/eric...doubt-n2328785

One observation on which Erickson is correct: Once Republican "vipers" in Congress begin sensing that Trump is a danger to their own political viability, they'll turn on him in a heartbeat.

Democrats, especially liberal Democrats, shouldn't be overjoyed with a Trump resignation. A weakened (distracted) Trump is greatly to their advantage. President Pence would (very likely) get a lot of legislation passed that Democrats will hate. That's the key reason why Trump is probably on his way out. Republicans, especially the donor class, are rapidly coming to the realization that they will be better off with a strong Pence rather than a weakened constantly-under-siege Trump.
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:26 AM   #134
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

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Originally Posted by dinopoker View Post
It's good for it to take time. Need it to drag into 2018.
tremendous point. if, say, this all gets resolved in 3 months and we have Pres Pence the Menace, public won't be 1/5th as riled up to come out and vote in protest for 18 elections obv. But ofc we also drag out the risk of nuclear apocalypse or other horrendous **** with every extra day Dump is in office. Blah
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:05 AM   #135
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

If after an impeachment/resignation of Trump we still can't beat a charismaless Pence it will prove de Maistre right about every country getting the government it deserves.
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:01 PM   #136
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

That was always true, regardless of whether Trump is impeached or not.
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Old 05-20-2017, 10:54 AM   #137
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

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Originally Posted by einbert View Post
You're joking right? It's the winning message. That and the fact that Republicans want to take health care away from millions of people and give tax cuts to the rich. It's a perfect one-two punch.
No, it's not. Running exclusively against Trump is why HRC lost. It's also the reason why DT's numbers haven't fallen below the low 40's high 30's in the 538 aggregate approval rating. Average people just don't care enough about Trump's Russia transgressions to turn on him. They do care about losing their health care. Vote for me so I can impeach Trump is a losing message for Democratic Congressional candidates in red districts (which we need to win to retake the house).
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Old 05-20-2017, 11:04 AM   #138
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

Trump scandals also evoke an instant whatabout that is only limited by the Trumpkin's imagination.

It's not one or the other, but candidates should generally be bringing the conversation around to policy.
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Old 05-20-2017, 11:10 AM   #139
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

The thing Trump cares about the most, and the subject of any competent investigation, are the same thing. Listen to Freamon, man. You follow half wit partisan hacks, you get consultants, lobbyists and other assorted losers. You follow the money, you get Trump and his closest associates.
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Old 05-20-2017, 03:56 PM   #140
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
If Trump resigns the GOP will box up any evidence of any possibility of any wrong doing, light it on fire and set it out to sea, pretend Pence is the immaculate President, and never ask any questions about those 6 months in 2017 ever again.
Even if Trump were to resign which seems unlikely given his personality, he would spend all his free time rallying his supporters against anyone who he feels slighted him - including Pence.

If Trump is forced out in any way most of his staunch supporters will view it as a crime by the swamp/establishment GOP for allowing it to happen.
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Old 05-21-2017, 01:42 AM   #141
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

Donald Trump reminds me of Archie Bunker. Confident in all his ignorance that he understands what's gone wrong with the world he used to know, he flounders as a result of his own incompetence. He's a kneejerk fascist, a kneejerk misogynist, a kneejerk reactionary. He gets all his knowledge from The Inquirer.

Trup combines this Bunkerism with shades of Mussolini. He sees himself as synonomous with the State. His heroes are psychotic killers (like Andrew Jackson). "Only I can fix it." Trump even thrusts his jaw out to make a point ala Il Duce. He never has been held accountable for anything he has said or done in his entire life. Thus he can say that Obama wasn't born in the United States, or that Ted Cruz's father was involved in the Kennedy assassination. He can pussy-grab, say (with surety) that no politician has ever been subjected to the horrible things he has been subjected to, and admit to obstructing justice while claiming that anyone who calls him on it is conducting a "witch hunt."

There have been comparisons to Nixon and Watergate. But I knew Richard Nixon and Donald Trump in no Richard Nixon. Yes, they both exhibit the key elements of the classic paranoid personality, but Richard Nixon knew things. He read things other than The Inquirer. He had been a congressman, a senator, a vice president. Trump is a galactic ignoramus.
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Old 05-21-2017, 02:15 AM   #142
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyfox View Post
Donald Trump reminds me of Archie Bunker. Confident in all his ignorance that he understands what's gone wrong with the world he used to know, he flounders as a result of his own incompetence. He's a kneejerk fascist, a kneejerk misogynist, a kneejerk reactionary. He gets all his knowledge from The Inquirer.

Trup combines this Bunkerism with shades of Mussolini. He sees himself as synonomous with the State. His heroes are psychotic killers (like Andrew Jackson). "Only I can fix it." Trump even thrusts his jaw out to make a point ala Il Duce. He never has been held accountable for anything he has said or done in his entire life. Thus he can say that Obama wasn't born in the United States, or that Ted Cruz's father was involved in the Kennedy assassination. He can pussy-grab, say (with surety) that no politician has ever been subjected to the horrible things he has been subjected to, and admit to obstructing justice while claiming that anyone who calls him on it is conducting a "witch hunt."

There have been comparisons to Nixon and Watergate. But I knew Richard Nixon and Donald Trump in no Richard Nixon. Yes, they both exhibit the key elements of the classic paranoid personality, but Richard Nixon knew things. He read things other than The Inquirer. He had been a congressman, a senator, a vice president. Trump is a galactic ignoramus.
Bah gawd, is that...is that andyfoxs music!?

Where have you been for the past 5 years? In any case welcome back.
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Old 05-21-2017, 05:41 AM   #143
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyfox View Post
Donald Trump reminds me of Archie Bunker. Confident in all his ignorance that he understands what's gone wrong with the world he used to know, he flounders as a result of his own incompetence. He's a kneejerk fascist, a kneejerk misogynist, a kneejerk reactionary. He gets all his knowledge from The Inquirer.

Trup combines this Bunkerism with shades of Mussolini. He sees himself as synonomous with the State. His heroes are psychotic killers (like Andrew Jackson). "Only I can fix it." Trump even thrusts his jaw out to make a point ala Il Duce. He never has been held accountable for anything he has said or done in his entire life. Thus he can say that Obama wasn't born in the United States, or that Ted Cruz's father was involved in the Kennedy assassination. He can pussy-grab, say (with surety) that no politician has ever been subjected to the horrible things he has been subjected to, and admit to obstructing justice while claiming that anyone who calls him on it is conducting a "witch hunt."

There have been comparisons to Nixon and Watergate. But I knew Richard Nixon and Donald Trump in no Richard Nixon. Yes, they both exhibit the key elements of the classic paranoid personality, but Richard Nixon knew things. He read things other than The Inquirer. He had been a congressman, a senator, a vice president. Trump is a galactic ignoramus.

Great post!
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Old 05-21-2017, 07:36 AM   #144
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

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Originally Posted by jman220 View Post
No, it's not. Running exclusively against Trump is why HRC lost. It's also the reason why DT's numbers haven't fallen below the low 40's high 30's in the 538 aggregate approval rating. Average people just don't care enough about Trump's Russia transgressions to turn on him. They do care about losing their health care. Vote for me so I can impeach Trump is a losing message for Democratic Congressional candidates in red districts (which we need to win to retake the house).

Trump is a lot more hated now than he was 8 months ago.

Also the reason HRC lost is that she's terrible.
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Old 05-21-2017, 09:07 AM   #145
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

I'm not a political swami or a genius fully in tune with the public mood, but, irrespective of how this "Trump business" plays out, I sense that Democrats need to start getting their act together - they need to play their cards right. Particularly, they have to avoid the temptation of going hard left. In 2020, they need to nominate a "likable" (non polarizing) candidate that doesn't have a history of scandal and questionable ethics. That means no Hillary Clinton, no Bernie Sanders, and no Nancy Pelosi. I listened to Elizabeth Warren giving a commencement speech to the graduating class of the University of Massachusetts - Amherst. It's clear, to me, that Senator Warren is setting the ground for a possible 2020 Presidential run. Even though I love Elizabeth Warren, I'm afraid even she will be too liberal to get elected.

Democrats need to nominate somebody like Connecticut senator Chris Murphy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_...cut_politician)

Senator Murphy doesn't carry the baggage of being too liberal. Somebody like Murphy (or maybe even Joe Biden) can get elected - especially against a staunch Republican dinosaur like Mike Pence. The ideal strategy for the Dems is to have a centrist candidate running against an ultra hard right Republican. It will also help if the Dems stress a positive message rather than trying to win by constantly stressing how Republicans only care about "the rich" and the one percent. (That "message" didn't work so well for Hillary - although it did work well for Obama versus Romney, but Obama wasn't carrying all the negative baggage that saddles HRC ...)

Above all, Democrats need to find (and nominate) a candidate that people can identify with. It's basic politics. They can't operate on the assumption (dream?) that Donald Trump is going to sink the GOP. Republicans will come to their senses and torpedo Trump long before he destroys their party.
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Old 05-21-2017, 01:37 PM   #146
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

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Originally Posted by DVaut1 View Post
Bah gawd, is that...is that andyfoxs music!?

Where have you been for the past 5 years? In any case welcome back.


For those who don't know, Andy ran the forum before me.
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Old 05-21-2017, 01:58 PM   #147
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

I didn't even know there was a time before the Iron Age. This is some eldrich 2p2 lore going down here ITT.
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Old 05-21-2017, 02:05 PM   #148
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyfox View Post
Donald Trump reminds me of Archie Bunker. Confident in all his ignorance that he understands what's gone wrong with the world he used to know, he flounders as a result of his own incompetence. He's a kneejerk fascist, a kneejerk misogynist, a kneejerk reactionary. He gets all his knowledge from The Inquirer.

Trup combines this Bunkerism with shades of Mussolini. He sees himself as synonomous with the State. His heroes are psychotic killers (like Andrew Jackson). "Only I can fix it." Trump even thrusts his jaw out to make a point ala Il Duce.
Good description. I want to punch him when he does the jaw jut thing.
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Old 05-23-2017, 02:03 AM   #149
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

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Originally Posted by DVaut1 View Post
Bah gawd, is that...is that andyfoxs music!?

Where have you been for the past 5 years? In any case welcome back.
In hibernation. In hiding. In denial.

In any event . . . thank you for the welcome back.
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Old 05-23-2017, 05:11 AM   #150
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Re: *** Impeachment Watch ***

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Originally Posted by CharlieDontSurf View Post
Even if Trump were to resign which seems unlikely given his personality, he would spend all his free time rallying his supporters against anyone who he feels slighted him - including Pence.

If Trump is forced out in any way most of his staunch supporters will view it as a crime by the swamp/establishment GOP for allowing it to happen.
i think this is why an infowars reporter was just given a white house press pass. trump's feeling the heat and likely knows the only thing between him and the republicans is his ability to hold the 40% of his base who are die-hard true believers.
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