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07-15-2012, 09:26 AM
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#61
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Looking for Rush HU Poker
Posts: 11,374
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Re: " If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that." - Obama
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichlemn
lol at the "unregulated capitalism" versus "socialism" false dichotomy that pervades political discourse. Both parties broadly support a mixed economy with at best small changes on the margins. Hardly anyone really disagrees that the rich are "job creators" or that "no man is an island" (except to what degree), so noting either tells us nothing about what the optimal top tax rate is.
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This.
Obama overstated his case when he said "you didn't build that."
His point is pretty clear. But it doesn't necessarily justify higher tax rates for the highest income earners when they already pay much more than rest of the population in absolute terms. (top 5% accounts for 55+%, top 1% accounts for 35~40%, 0.1% for 15~20% of federal income taxes since 2000)
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07-15-2012, 09:34 AM
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#62
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Misreading your post.
Posts: 7,725
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Re: " If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that." - Obama
Quote:
Originally Posted by clowntable
Lol? Most of the **** that happens happens exactly due to regulations. It happens because crooks can't be driven out of business by more honest businessmen because they play the system and get monopoly-like protection from whatever politician they have in their pockets.
Regulation is what drives the bribe-capitalism of the modern age.
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cite
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07-15-2012, 09:58 AM
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#63
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banned
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Wookie can't handle the truth!!
Posts: 11,244
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Obama is a socialist. He's basically screaming it from a rooftop with this speech.
It's clear he's saying that individuals who have succeeded in life more than others "owe" their success to the government.
Would you say Steve Jobs didn't build Apple? That Bill Gates didn't build Microsoft? That they didn't earn the billions of dollars they have because their are just as many "hard working" and "smart" Americans out there.
What Obama shows ignorance of is that some skills, talents, and products are more valuable than others. That capitalism and entrepreneurship rewards most, those who create the most wealth.
Dems want the rich to pay more. Doesn't matter what they pay now. It's not enough. It'll never be enough. The fact that they are still rich is enough of a reason to tax them more.
If they had the chance, Obama and the Dems would choose to see the poor get poorer if it meant that incomes were more "equal" in our society. Disgusting.
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07-15-2012, 10:04 AM
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#64
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sunshine State
Posts: 4,170
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Re: " If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that." - Obama
Obviously someone does not know the difference between Keynesian economics and Socialism.
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07-15-2012, 10:06 AM
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#65
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banned
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Wookie can't handle the truth!!
Posts: 11,244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichlemn
Along with a phrase that sounds bad when quoted out of context.
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It sounds just as bad to me in context. Posters are saying he clearly didn't mean to say it. How can they be so sure? Everything else he said goes right in line.
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07-15-2012, 10:08 AM
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#66
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King Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: he must be a popular dude.
Posts: 52,256
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Re: " If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that." - Obama
Cliffnotes: people need to cooperate to maximize their potential, so we're going to force you to cooperate with US. Also, rich people like bankers didn't make all that money by themselves, the government gave a lot of it to them (shoutout to the cooperators for making that possible); meanwhile other hardworking cooperators are ignored by government bailouts.
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07-15-2012, 10:18 AM
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#67
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Beat Nate Silver
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Blogging 2012 Election Projections
Posts: 12,230
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Re: " If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that." - Obama
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliBobby
My question to the Obama supporters here is how you would change the tax structure. Would you stop at taking away the Bush tax cuts on $250K? Would you go further than that?
Do you want to tax capital gains at the individuals income tax rate? If you do not start accounting for inflation isn't that going to be a very steep tax?
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1. Capital gains taxed like income over some threshold, say $1m.
2. Capital gains income is calculated relative to inflation (say, year over year change in CPI but you could use something esle too as long as it's clearly consistently defined.
Last edited by goofball; 07-15-2012 at 10:29 AM.
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07-15-2012, 10:18 AM
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#68
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 39, 46, 56, 59, 191
Posts: 39,970
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Re: " If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that." - Obama
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul D
Obviously someone does not know the difference between Keynesian economics and Socialism.
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Most economists these days aren't Keynesians anyways. If Obama has advisors that are that's pretty bad imo.
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07-15-2012, 10:28 AM
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#69
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,340
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Re: " If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that." - Obama
Quote:
Originally Posted by The 13th 4postle
Obama is a socialist. He's basically screaming it from a rooftop with this speech.
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dude, you are all socialists, and have been that way since the conclusion of WW2. All those factories that were expanded or built from scratch were given to industry (for the social good). Eisenhower decided interstates were a good idea in a fascist country, so he had them criss cross the land (for the social good). All the technology that was created to catch up to the Russian space program was deemed to be in the good of the nation (more socialism) in turn led to the present day tech boom.
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07-15-2012, 10:30 AM
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#70
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: rubble of nations
Posts: 6,236
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Re: " If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that." - Obama
Quote:
Originally Posted by The 13th 4postle
Would you say Steve Jobs didn't build Apple? That Bill Gates didn't build Microsoft? That they didn't earn the billions of dollars they have because their are just as many "hard working" and "smart" Americans out there.
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Steve Jobs and Bill Gates benefited greatly from intellectual property laws and government investment in the early internet (and many many other things).
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07-15-2012, 10:50 AM
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#71
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: trembling in fear of tomdemaine
Posts: 29,924
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Re: " If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that." - Obama
Quote:
Originally Posted by cres
dude, you are all socialists, and have been that way since the conclusion of WW2. All those factories that were expanded or built from scratch were given to industry (for the social good). Eisenhower decided interstates were a good idea in a fascist country, so he had them criss cross the land (for the social good). All the technology that was created to catch up to the Russian space program was deemed to be in the good of the nation (more socialism) in turn led to the present day tech boom.
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let's see how the self-labeled conservatives hand-wave this away.
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07-15-2012, 11:09 AM
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#72
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banned
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Wookie can't handle the truth!!
Posts: 11,244
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It's funny, Obama's statement is so bad... they won't even defend it. "He didn't mean to say it."
I'm the delusional one with half a brain but I can read. Obama said it. Whether you want to acknowledge that fact or not is your problem.
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07-15-2012, 11:11 AM
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#73
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: trembling in fear of tomdemaine
Posts: 29,924
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Re: " If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that." - Obama
people say lots of things 13th, most people in america can read, don't be too proud of that fact.
less people can understand what is meant by what they read.
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07-15-2012, 11:12 AM
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#74
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Sunshine State
Posts: 4,170
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Re: " If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that." - Obama
Quote:
Originally Posted by The 13th 4postle
It's funny, Obama's statement is so bad... they won't even defend it. "He didn't mean to say it."
I'm the delusional one with half a brain but I can read. Obama said it. Whether you want to acknowledge that fact or not is your problem.
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You do have a profile pic of a guy who signed his name into racist newsletters, and are currently trying to make a big deal of a mistake in speech by Obama..
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07-15-2012, 11:12 AM
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#75
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: trembling in fear of tomdemaine
Posts: 29,924
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Re: " If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that." - Obama
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul D
You do have a profile pic of a guy who signed his name into racist newsletters, and trying to make a big deal of a mistake in speech by Obama...
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omg pwned.
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