Don't talk about politics. I supported Hillary (not particularly joyfully... but who did?) but that doesn't mean this didn't just happen for valid reasons.

The reality is that the real world is SUPER complex. A lot of people in this country feel like the status quo is ****ing them over really hard. If you're a 50 year old white guy without a degree from Vincennes, IN or Holland, MI you're actually completely right. You make less money after inflation than you made in 1980. Incredibly spending your entire working life praying that you don't get laid off has an effect on your politics.

Trump voters voted for Trump so that he would blow up our foreign policy obligations and use our nations leverage as the worlds largest market to our advantage for once.

I think it's going to go hilariously badly... But what do I know? I was super wrong about how this election was going to turn out. My prediction was that Trump was going to be in serious legal trouble right about now. Winning changes a lot.

https://youtu.be/XanyPq5BcoA?t=1495

Most families would benefit from group therapy given the two party system.

Try to get them to agree on a shared set of news sources. See if you can get them to agree that w/o at least a shared set of facts, we can have no dialog.

I did this with my Mom. It's working out pretty well so far. WE can watch nightly news, read a few newspapers, the economist, Meet the Press, stuff like that. So no Fox/Rush/Drudge for her, no Daily Show, Sam B, twitter, most of the threads here, for me.

And again - I know you hate to do this - but the *implication* that your Mom remaining a Trumpfan will put a chill on your relationship will have more effect than infinite hours of debate. She is being pulled hard to one side by emotionally-triggering propaganda. You will never win out against that with rationality alone (imo). You have to at least tug on the emotional rope the other way a little.

Oh, ffs! Here's an fyi: They think that you're an idiot and hope that when you all sit down to Thanksgiving dinner or w/e you'll keep your mouth shut, just for this one damn time.

Talking politics to any family member is hazardous. Be Trump or Hillary nobody wants to hear another point of view for the most part.

I'm smart enough not to bring it up during special occasions.

But when a family member brings up something political and makes a stupid comment, I just hate leaving them to be ignorant and stupid.

I mean if you want Trump to not get a second term we have to find some way to break through to them and convince them that they are wrong.

Re Trump's second term: That will take care of itself bec this is going to either be a crash-and-burn or a modest success and if it's a success he wins again.

How serious do things have to get before you decide to take the uncomfortable step of talking to family about politics? Would Muslims rounded up into camps be enough? How about a vote to give Trump plenary powers? Would you want to sit down with family to talk about this before the vote takes place?

Their votes don't matter. This should be the least of your worries.

You can talk to family members about politics anytime. As long as you remember everyone is entitled to their opinion and yours isn't always correct. I don't see why grown adults can't have a discussion with family members and keep it pleasant and civil.

It can't be that difficult surely, unless you're a 12 year old.

Republicans are like one state away from being able to pass amendments. Republicans are basically trying to end democracy on a bunch of fronts. Everything matters at this point.

Is that right?

How soon we all forget...

"Democrats trying to rewrite 1st Amendment"

https://spectator.org/59746_democrat...rst-amendment/

Full disclosure: I am not for either side really, I think they are all the same, kinda like the WWF. All pretending and profiting hansomely at Americans expense

Also suzzer99?

Could you please bring back the cute rabbit avatar?

Im getting complaints

Thank you in advance

bob, it's a tough position. Of my entire family (mother and father's side) the only ones I wouldn't put money on having voted for Trump are my two younger sisters (one's a confirmed liberal, the other rarely mentions politics). For the most part, I don't talk about politics. Perhaps I should change that. Certainly don't listen to those saying "ah, politics doens't really matter enough to talk to your family about."

Look at this guy http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...echnology.html
Blew the whistle on a company his grandad was on the Board of. WOuld you respect him more or less if he said "hey, it's not worth opening a family rift"?

There's been some good advice and some terrible advice ITT. Avoid making declarative statements like "Trump is a fascist!". Avoid making any at all. Focus on a lot of Why and How questions, like "How do you expect Trump to bring back those jobs he promised?" and "why do you think he's been sued so many times?" Those questions have to be posed in a sympathetic neutral tone, not a "gotcha one". If they respond with some insane conspiracy say something like "oh really? I never heard that. Where did you learn that?". The goal is for them to start actually looking for info, and if you can push them to do so outside of their lunatic bubble so much the better.

If they are getting agitated say something like "you probably think I'm a terrible son for arguing about politics with you" to which (unless they're actually soulless) "of course not, I'm proud that you're so smart and well-read" (and once they've said it, subconsciously they'll start to believe it, helping prevent them from blaming you for talking about politics).

I absolutely disagree with suzzer's idea of blackmailing them with your presence.

The hard part is that Trump followers believe they are entitled to their own facts.

when I talk to a Trump supporter I just say "thanks for doing your part in keeping corrupt Hillary out of the white house"

Eh, I don't think garden-variety liberal condescension gets anywhere in dealing with the extreme views you're likely to encounter among many Trump supporters. I recommend even harsher tactics.

Hillary won the popular vote by a huge margin. I'm more interested in changing the electoral college than pandering to racists.

gotta win elections to do that, right?

Yeah, true. The problem is you're often having a vicarious argument with, like, Alex Jones and a bunch of white supremacist chain emails of uncertain origin.

let him focus on the electoral college. it'll take decades to change that and meanwhile the rest of us can focus on running the govt better

This is definitely true of them individually. But don't forget that they are all looking for anecdotes that support their life experience. As a very large macro group they all did this... At a certain point enough people's anecdotal life experience becomes data. At this point I think it's pretty obvious that the official data sources have been downplaying and under reporting some pretty major trends. Otherwise this wouldn't have happened.

And please spare me 'Hillary only lost because x'. She lost for 25 different reasons, some of them excellent. The establishment in this country thought they could ram a tainted technocrat who THEY liked and trusted down our throats. It didn't work. The spectacular incompetence of not learning their lesson after 2000 and 2004 when they made the exact same mistake is pretty disillusioning.

This is what's so challenging.

If you can't agree on what the facts are, how can you even have a discussion to begin with? You have facts from your sources and you know that yours are reliable. They have theirs from fake news sites like BB and WND. It's like being in a book club where everybody has read a different book.

Your family are just quite nasty and stupid when it comes to politics. Sorry. You can't rationalize it away on the grounds that they are your family members and so couldn't possibly believe those things.

Try and focus on what you like about them and avoid politics altogether. You are wasting your time trying to reason with them, if they were reasonable they would not be Trump supporters.

More generally there's too much of this: Trump and his supporters are c**** but now Trump has won the election he isn't. He was either never a c*** or he remains a c***.

Much the same could have been argued about those who voted for Hitler or any number of evil men, who generally faced much worse economic problems and external threats.