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Old 07-07-2017, 03:48 AM   #101
Paul D
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

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Originally Posted by 27AllIn View Post
Thanks for typing all that up, and to a large extend I agree with it. If people are fighting each other and refuse to cooperate then no system is going to work. What ACists believe is that for a State to be legitimate, there needs to be a real contract that people actually sign. We believe that it's possible for government to be voluntary, instead of people being born into it and unable to opt-out. We also believe that private law, private security, and private courts can all exist and do a better job than if there's a monopoly on those services, like what we have now. Competition would improve them immensely.

I find it amusing when people bring up Social Contract, because it can justify anything. Why don't we beat up that millionaire and take all his stuff? Social contract! Let's go over to those pot-heads and throw them in a cage. Social Contract! You're going to pay for endless wars overseas whether you like it or not. Again, Social Contract!
I find it amusing when people want written contracts for everything. You're not anarchist. You're a Kool Aid drinker.
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Old 07-11-2017, 01:03 AM   #102
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

A beware of dog sign is like a contract.
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Old 07-11-2017, 07:00 AM   #103
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

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Originally Posted by 27AllIn View Post
Thanks for typing all that up, and to a large extend I agree with it. If people are fighting each other and refuse to cooperate then no system is going to work. What ACists believe is that for a State to be legitimate, there needs to be a real contract that people actually sign. We believe that it's possible for government to be voluntary, instead of people being born into it and unable to opt-out. We also believe that private law, private security, and private courts can all exist and do a better job than if there's a monopoly on those services, like what we have now. Competition would improve them immensely.

Hey that's great, you have beliefs. But how would these beliefs inform your decisions in the real world? I think ideologies can be pretty irrelevant. OK, so a person has an ideal world in their head, so what? There's a real world out there and there's a million different problems you're going to have to solve without privatized water and air and without DROs.

As far as ACism and the real world, in my opinion, alot of the actions taken under the Trump administration would coincide perfectly with ACist actors. If someone told me Steve Bannon and Donald Trump are ACists, I'd probably believe them. I'm referring mainly to "deconstructing the administrative state."

I think this approach to government is absolutely disastrous, and it's causing irreparable harm to our country and citizens. Just look at the environment. Scott Pruitt wants to dismantle the EPA and hand regulatory authority, responsibility, and burden off to the states. Trump has signed an executive order removing regulations aimed at preventing mining companies from dumping toxic waste into streams and rivers. This is ancap 101: remove government regulations, let the free market make money hand over fist and sort out the consequences afterward through the magical invisible hand.

Do you think removing environmental regulations is a good thing? If so, how?



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I find it amusing when people bring up Social Contract, because it can justify anything. Why don't we beat up that millionaire and take all his stuff? Social contract! Let's go over to those pot-heads and throw them in a cage. Social Contract! You're going to pay for endless wars overseas whether you like it or not. Again, Social Contract!

Ethical Egoism can justify just about anything. If I'm a pharmacist and I water down drugs to increase my profits, my customers probably aren't going to die cause they're still getting the drugs, though less than they really need, meanwhile I'm making bank. I benefit, so this is ethical, moral, and good. Me me me me.

Social Contract Theory absolutely has cons, but Ethical Egoism has cons as well. Do you not see them?

Last edited by AllCowsEatGrass; 07-11-2017 at 07:15 AM.
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Old 07-11-2017, 01:13 PM   #104
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

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I can tell you why I think the Social Contract is bunk. Simply because it doesn't mean anything. It's an empty, friendly-sounding phrase used to justify redistribution of wealth, aka socialism, and in the process governments can wage wars, engage in extremely burdensome regulation, and make peaceful activities illegal. It has nothing to do with what a real contract is.
So can the goon squads or whoever monopolizes violence in ACland.
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Old 07-11-2017, 02:49 PM   #105
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

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So can the goon squads or whoever monopolizes violence in ACland.
No. ACland is a land of violence. Including vigilantes and mercenaries. Anyone can be a goon, or own a goon squad, so no monopoly.

However, ACland has the exact kinda Social Contract as modern western 'Statistism', and relies 100% on Social Contract Theory to legitimatize the regime. In each ACland there is a written and codified constitution, that every court owner, goon squad owner, and goon are required to pledge allegiance to. Sound familiar?

So, like always, its LOL@ ACers. As I've mention they are surely the laziest, most ignorant, and least inquisitive of all the alleged -isms on the interwebs. They know so little about ACism itself, that they as often as not argue against it (like 27AllIn is hilariously doing ITT), as they argue for it.

LMFAO@ ACers !!!1!
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Old 07-12-2017, 12:20 AM   #106
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

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Hey that's great, you have beliefs. But how would these beliefs inform your decisions in the real world? I think ideologies can be pretty irrelevant. OK, so a person has an ideal world in their head, so what? There's a real world out there and there's a million different problems you're going to have to solve without privatized water and air and without DROs.

As far as ACism and the real world, in my opinion, alot of the actions taken under the Trump administration would coincide perfectly with ACist actors. If someone told me Steve Bannon and Donald Trump are ACists, I'd probably believe them. I'm referring mainly to "deconstructing the administrative state."

I think this approach to government is absolutely disastrous, and it's causing irreparable harm to our country and citizens. Just look at the environment. Scott Pruitt wants to dismantle the EPA and hand regulatory authority, responsibility, and burden off to the states. Trump has signed an executive order removing regulations aimed at preventing mining companies from dumping toxic waste into streams and rivers. This is ancap 101: remove government regulations, let the free market make money hand over fist and sort out the consequences afterward through the magical invisible hand.

Do you think removing environmental regulations is a good thing? If so, how?






Ethical Egoism can justify just about anything. If I'm a pharmacist and I water down drugs to increase my profits, my customers probably aren't going to die cause they're still getting the drugs, though less than they really need, meanwhile I'm making bank. I benefit, so this is ethical, moral, and good. Me me me me.

Social Contract Theory absolutely has cons, but Ethical Egoism has cons as well. Do you not see them?
This article explains the Libertarian approach to the topic of pollution better than I ever can: https://mises.org/library/libertaria...esto-pollution

"consider what would happen if private firms were able to own the rivers and the lakes. If a private firm owned Lake Erie, for example, then anyone dumping garbage in the lake would be promptly sued in the courts for their aggression against private property and would be forced by the courts to pay damages and to cease and desist from any further aggression. "
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I told you I don't adhere to Ethical Egoism so I don't know why you're asking me about that. If a pharmacist is selling shoddy goods they can be sued and reprimanded.

Here's Milton Friedman, who's a small-government type, talking on the subject of greed:

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Old 07-12-2017, 03:05 AM   #107
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

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"consider what would happen if private firms were able to own the rivers and the lakes. If a private firm owned Lake Erie, for example, then anyone dumping garbage in the lake would be promptly sued in the courts for their aggression against private property and would be forced by the courts to pay damages and to cease and desist from any further aggression."

This is laughable. First of all, what if the owner is the one dumping **** into it? Well, property rights, nothing can be done about it. What if someone pays them a lot of money to be able to dump toxic waste into it? Well that's just making a profit, no problem there. See any issues with this?

If you don't adhere to Ethical Egoism, why are you an ACist?

Your Friedman video is interesting, especially the part where he says no great innovation ever came from government. I wonder if he got to that interview by driving on interstate highway infrastructure, which was created by the U.S. government for military purposes. You found that video on the internet, right? You know the internet, that's this magical thing we're using to communicate that was also created by the U.S. government.
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Old 07-12-2017, 07:00 AM   #108
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

"If you don't adhere to Ethical Egoism, why are you an ACist? "

The State wastes enormous amounts of money, does immoral stuff on a systematic basis, and funds itself through coercion. People can spend their own money far better, leading to a more peaceful and prosperous society.

People will be free to choose what kind of society they'll want to live in. Can even set up communism, if everyone agrees to it in that group.
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Old 07-12-2017, 07:50 AM   #109
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

"This is laughable. First of all, what if the owner is the one dumping **** into it? Well, property rights, nothing can be done about it. What if someone pays them a lot of money to be able to dump toxic waste into it? Well that's just making a profit, no problem there. See any issues with this?"

A person should be allowed to store toxic waste on their own land, I mean it's gotta go somewhere. You drive a car, right? You're polluting!

If the toxic waste poses a threat to others, or seeps into another's property, they can face the legal consequences of that.
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:12 AM   #110
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

And thus the environment was destroyed in a generation.
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Old 07-12-2017, 09:53 AM   #111
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

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... People will be free to choose what kind of society they'll want to live in. Can even set up communism, if everyone agrees to it in that group.
LMFAO@ ACers !!!1!

First, no just no. Peeps wouldn't be more free in ACland. It'd be exactly the opposite. How exactly are you more free, when you landlord gets to mke up and enforce his own laws upon you? How can a society that's fundamentally based on slavery, and where all children are enslaved, be more free?



Second, if everyone agreed to be commies, everyone just rejected ACism. What a stupid/stupid/stupid thing to say. Like, this stupidity is just as stupid either way around...
Commie: People will be free to choose what kind of society they'll want to live in. Can even set up ACism, if everyone agrees to it in that group.
But not only is this stupid/stupid/stupid it's wrong/wrong/wrong. There's that ACland constitution... remember? Every ACland regime's constitution would ban Communism flat out.

LMFAO@ ACers !!!1!
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Old 07-12-2017, 12:18 PM   #112
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

#StatismisaReligion
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Old 07-12-2017, 12:20 PM   #113
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

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Old 07-12-2017, 12:36 PM   #114
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

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#StatismisaReligion
All you're doing my cousin is proving the 'Leftist' bias inherent in the Alta system. If a water carrier for the long departed ACers posted that shiz, they'd be whacked by the ban-stick but pronto.
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Old 07-12-2017, 04:39 PM   #115
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

Oh man, are we still pretending that there is a means of violently enforcing property rights upon the nonconsenting that isn't functionally a state in my forum? Hahahahaha
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Old 07-12-2017, 07:06 PM   #116
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

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Originally Posted by 27AllIn View Post
"If you don't adhere to Ethical Egoism, why are you an ACist? "

The State wastes enormous amounts of money, does immoral stuff on a systematic basis, and funds itself through coercion. People can spend their own money far better, leading to a more peaceful and prosperous society.

People will be free to choose what kind of society they'll want to live in. Can even set up communism, if everyone agrees to it in that group.

Capitalists waste enormous amounts of money, they do immoral stuff on a systematic basis for the sake of profit, and they fund themselves through the systematic coercion of market capitalism.



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"This is laughable. First of all, what if the owner is the one dumping **** into it? Well, property rights, nothing can be done about it. What if someone pays them a lot of money to be able to dump toxic waste into it? Well that's just making a profit, no problem there. See any issues with this?"

A person should be allowed to store toxic waste on their own land, I mean it's gotta go somewhere. You drive a car, right? You're polluting!

If the toxic waste poses a threat to others, or seeps into another's property, they can face the legal consequences of that.

Storing toxic waste is not the same as dumping toxic waste into bodies of water, it's also not the same as vehicular emissions, which btw would be a lot less if oil and gas industry hadn't been lobbying for decades to fight against electric vehicles and environmental emissions regulations.

Serious question: do you see any problems or downsides at all to ACism?
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Old 07-13-2017, 03:25 PM   #117
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

"Capitalists waste enormous amounts of money, they do immoral stuff on a systematic basis for the sake of profit, and they fund themselves through the systematic coercion of market capitalism."

This doesn't make any sense, but nice try on being clever.

"Serious question: do you see any problems or downsides at all to ACism?"

No cause we'll put Trump in charge and he'll fix everything.
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Old 07-13-2017, 03:54 PM   #118
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

Duckin and dodgin the ACist avoids answering questions
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Old 07-13-2017, 04:04 PM   #119
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

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Duckin and dodgin the ACist avoids answering questions
A(in't) C(ommenting)
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Old 07-13-2017, 05:33 PM   #120
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

I finally get the appeal of clowning on ACists.
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Old 07-23-2017, 09:44 AM   #121
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

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Oh man, are we still pretending that there is a means of violently enforcing property rights upon the nonconsenting that isn't functionally a state in my forum? Hahahahaha
Similar to the difference between bitcoin and us dollar
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Old 07-23-2017, 10:00 AM   #122
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

BC exists because of the legal system established for enforcing the dollar not despite of it. The same cops that bust you for defrauding someone for dollars will chase you down for defrauding someone for BC.
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Old 07-23-2017, 11:46 AM   #123
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

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Similar to the difference between bitcoin and us dollar
I'm not sure if this is supposed to be a barb at me or not. But, sure, I suppose. Bitcoin does seem to meet reasonable definitions of a currency. It may be a lol currency, but it can still be exchanged for goods and services. I don't think there are people out there who think Bitcoin isn't a currency like they think feudalism ACism isn't a state.
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Old 07-23-2017, 11:00 PM   #124
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

bitcoin is to currency, is what AC is to a state
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Old 07-23-2017, 11:07 PM   #125
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Re: how many ACists in the world?

Imaginary?
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