How Libertarians Win Friends And Influence People With Their Positions on the Civil War - Page 64 - Politics and Economics

adanthar · 12-03-2009, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjkidd

That guy who's been dead for 15 years again? Yawn.

Lee Atwater is also dead, and yet you're in here arguing that "the Anglo-Celtic peoples settled the South and gave it its dominant culture and civilisation" is not a giant "HEY RACISTS JOIN THIS GROUP" flag (edited for obviousness). Pretty sure dead guys can still be influential from beyond the grave.

HomerNoonJr · 12-03-2009, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVaut1

Is explicitly, unequivocally racist. I'm not conceding these people are just ignorant and lived in alternate universes where books didn't exist and stuff. That happens to kids, I understand. That's not what's going on here.

Africans settled along the Nile and gave it its dominate culture and civilization.

As for the statement in question, it isn't coded "racism", if anything it is coded xenophobia and coded conservatism, suggesting that the culture should remain the same and fearful of different ethinicities imposing their culture onto the people of that region. There is nothing in that statement that suggests that they hate any people, simply that they want to maintain the conservative lifestyle that has dominated the region since its founding.

Nielsio · 12-03-2009, 06:43 PM

1. What's a 'neo-confederate'?

2. You guys who keep bringing up racism: it seems you guys really dislike racism, because why else would we have such a long thread about it. But it seems Lincoln was a racist. Do you guys criticize Lincoln also? I mean, I don't think racism can get much worse than Lincoln's. Seems a good thing then to take him off his throw in the public opinion and expose him for the racist that he was. Right?

vixticator · 12-03-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomerNoonJr

Africans settled along the Nile and gave it its dominate culture and civilization.

FACEPLAM

DMACM · 12-03-2009, 06:44 PM

This thread keeps reminding me of this interview I saw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F9iuNKVcGQ
Actually reading the description it looks like whoever posted it may be racist. But anyway, Ron Paul defends his position on the civil war here.

FWIW I think we should erect statutes to John Brown and I'm glad we fought the civil war.

HomerNoonJr · 12-03-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vixticator

FACEPLAM

nh, wp.

vixticator · 12-03-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nielsio

1. What's a 'neo-confederate'?

2. You guys who keep bringing racism up: it seems you guys really dislike racism, because why else would we have such a long thread about it. But it seems Lincoln was a racist. Do you guys criticize Lincoln also? I mean, I don't think racism can get much worse than Lincoln's. Seems a good thing then to take him off his throw in the public opinion and expose him for the racist that he was. Right?

1. the internet is your friend

2. Lincoln's racism is not relevant to this thread and everybody itt concedes he was a racist. but way to try and steer the conversation off the road.

SenorKeeed · 12-03-2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adanthar

Lee Atwater is also dead, and yet you're in here arguing that "the Anglo-Celtic peoples settled the South and gave it its dominant culture and civilisation" is not a giant "HEY RACISTS JOIN THIS GROUP" flag (edited for obviousness). Pretty sure dead guys can still be influential from beyond the grave.

"The African peoples were taken to the South and imparted on the region a distinct culture. We believe the culture is important and must be preserved."

Would this statement be racist if a southern African-American group had it on it's website?

Case Closed · 12-03-2009, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vixticator

Rothbard wasn't defending Duke in the link. He thinks the man is despicable. But he recognizes there is an audience out there for certain rhetoric and believes the libertarian movement can make use of it.

I don't think anyone denies that this at the very least was the strategy for them at one point, but now they've found a brand new crowd to sell their political schemes to and we're not keen on that tripe.

We're losing even recent historical context for these libertarian types because of the internet generation imo. Back in his day LRC was the type of guy who would be hand cranking pamphlets off a printing press if it meant getting his thoughts into the hands of people. He's got a ton of energy and more commitment than I'll probably ever have to anything related to politics. Because everyone has a blog to spout their thoughts he seems less out there than he would if you had ran into him in the 80s in my opinion.

He's great for what he is, which is the ass end of a libertarian echo chamber. It's small now, but we've got to build it up before it can do anything real. He's just another guy like me who's read the literature which was modeled after other people's **** and now he plans on talking about it so much that people talk about him talking about it and they are talking about how everyone is talking about this new thing that so many people are talking about to the point that other people have to talk about this thing that everyone else is talking.

There is a lot of noise and nonsense in an echo chamber, but in the end the only thing that actually matters is that we shrink the size of the government at some point. If people say stupid stuff along they way, then I guess that's their idea of how to start a libertarian revolution.

adanthar · 12-03-2009, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjkidd

"The African peoples were taken to the South and imparted on the region a distinct culture. We believe the culture is important and must be preserved."

Would this statement be racist if a southern African-American group had it on it's website?

Is a group calling for recognition of a White History Month racist?

Huehuecoyotl · 12-03-2009, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adanthar

Is a group calling for recognition of a White History Month racist?

InB4 the other 11 months of the year

Case Closed · 12-03-2009, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adanthar

Is a group calling for recognition of a White History Month racist?

Yes

SenorKeeed · 12-03-2009, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adanthar

Is a group calling for recognition of a White History Month racist?

Not if a group calling for a black history month isn't racist. The first rule of morality is you can't have separate classes of people where an action is prohibited for one group but allowed for another.

T50_Omaha8 · 12-03-2009, 07:00 PM

This thread is fast on it's way to becoming one of the top 30 threads of all time in the politics forum!

Keep it up guys. I know you can do it.

edit: O/U 3PM tomorrow...any takers?

SL__72 · 12-03-2009, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nielsio

1. What's a 'neo-confederate'?

Quote:

Originally Posted by wiki

* Honor of the Confederacy and its veterans — Much of the Neo-Confederate movement is concerned with giving the proper due honor to the Confederacy itself, to the veterans of the Confederacy and Confederate veterans' cemeteries, to the various flags of the Confederacy, and to cultural Southern identity.[3]
* Economics — neo-Confederates usually advocate a free market economy which engages in significantly less taxation than currently found in the United States, and which does not revolve around fiat currencies such as the United States Dollar.[4]
* History — many neo-Confederates are openly critical of the presidency of Abraham Lincoln to varied degrees, and of the history of Reconstruction. Various authors have written critiques of Lincoln and the Union. Slavery is almost never defended, but it is usually denied as a primary cause of the American Civil War.[5] Critics often accuse Neo-Confederates of "revisionism" and of acting as "apologists".
* Culture — many neo-Confederates promote an unabashed Christian culture. They support, for example, public displays of Christianity, such as "Ten Commandments" monuments and displays of the Christian cross.[6] Almost all Neo-Confederates strongly support the right to keep and bear arms, present in both the United States Constitution and the Confederate States Constitution. Generally they oppose unmitigated illegal immigration of foreign nationals into Southern states.[7] Some Neo-Confederates view the Civil War as a conflict between a secular North and an orthodox Christian South.[8] Certain Neo-Confederates believe in a Celtic identity theory for residents of the South, with residents of the North being mostly English.[9]
* Secession — many neo-Confederates openly advocate the resecession of the Southern states and territories which comprised the old Confederate States of America. The League of the South, for example, promotes the "independence of the Southern people" from the "American empire". [10] Most neo-Confederate groups do not seek violent revolution, but rather an orderly separation, such as was done in the division of Czechoslovakia. Many Neo-Confederate groups have prepared for what they view as a possible collapse of the federal United States into its 50 separate states, much like the Soviet Union collapsed, and believe the Confederacy can be resurrected at that time.
* The Civil Rights Movement — many neo-Confederates adopt a typical paleoconservative view of the Civil Rights Movement.[11]
* Antifeminism — neo-Confederates support traditional gender roles in opposition to feminism, again, much like most paleoconservatives. [12]

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