Here we go again... (unarmed black teen shot by cop): Shootings in LA and MN - Page 314 - Politics and Economics

I really don't understand why, with all the cases worth discussing where an unarmed person is shot, we are discussing a case where an armed person is shot.

06-22-2017 , 01:35 PM

#7827

Zorkman

banned

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 6,341

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisV

I think one takeaway from the incident is a training one, that you should never instruct someone NOT to do something. Castile had earlier been instructed to get his ID. After he disclosed the gun, Yanez told him "don't reach for it". This is not an instruction Castile can comply with because he hasn't been told what he should do instead. According to Castile's girlfriend, Castile was putting his hands back up at the time he was shot. The problem is that if he has his hands down by his pockets and then suddenly pulls them back up, that could be interpreted as threatening. An instruction of "Freeze! Don't move!" instead would be clear, while "Don't reach for it" is ambiguous as to whether he should put his hands back up or just keep his hands where they are. Either could be interpreted as hostile.

That is a good point, and one that does not require Yanez to go to prison to implement.

06-22-2017 , 01:36 PM

#7828

TrollyWantACracker

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 4,184

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorkman

I really don't understand why, with all the cases worth discussing where an unarmed person is shot, we are discussing a case where an armed person is shot.

You ever notice hoe liberals never say anything about all of the black people who haven't been shot by the police?

06-22-2017 , 01:36 PM

#7829

Zorkman

banned

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 6,341

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisV

Huh? I've seen the video. Exactly that exchange happened. Transcript:

Castile pretty obviously means here that he was reaching for the ID which had been asked for. It would have been better for him to say "My ID is in this pocket, can I get it out?" but he didn't.

I can't blame the officer for focusing on actions rather than words. Just because someone with a gun is telling you that they aren't reaching for it as they physically reach for a location in which a gun is often stored, does not mean that they are not in fact reaching for it, as I'm sure you know.

06-22-2017 , 01:38 PM

#7830

Zorkman

banned

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 6,341

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

One of the reasons that people talk past each other in cases involving police shootings is because they conflate jury verdicts with judgments about whether the officer acted appropriately.

In other words, in a lot of cases, both sides are right to a certain degree. Maybe the jury was correct to return an acquittal because the standard for criminal liability is extremely high, but at the same, it might be pretty obvious that the defendant has no business being a police officer.

I agree with you, Rococo.

06-22-2017 , 01:39 PM

#7831

Zorkman

banned

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 6,341

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorKeeed

The cop never asked to see the guy's hands. If he was yelling SHOW ME YOUR HANDS and the dead guy kept reaching for his wallet that's a little easier to understand. But the cop went from zero to emptying his clip without yelling SHOW ME YOUR HANDS or FREEZE or whatever.

There wasn't time, apparently.

06-22-2017 , 01:45 PM

#7832

Huehuecoyotl

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 29,257

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorkman

I really don't understand why, with all the cases worth discussing where an unarmed person is shot, we are discussing a case where an armed person is shot.

Just wait a few days. When it comes to cops shooting people America is spoiled for choice

06-22-2017 , 01:47 PM

#7833

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,419

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorkman

Yes. The defendant told investigators: "I continued to tell him don’t do it or don’t reach for it and he still continued to move. And, it appeared to me that be had no regard to what I was saying. He didn’t care what I was saying. He still reached down."

He should have stopped reaching for his gun when asked by the officer.

Testimony is not evidence

06-22-2017 , 01:47 PM

#7834

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,419

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorkman

I really don't understand why, with all the cases worth discussing where an unarmed person is shot, we are discussing a case where an armed person is shot.

He had a legal right to own and carry the gun. I thought you were a 2a supporter?

06-22-2017 , 01:50 PM

#7835

JoltinJake

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 5,236

Quote:

Originally Posted by businessdude

I don't think the guy planned to kill and cop AND it looks like the cop saw enough to think the situation could be escalating.

With your life on the line, are you really going to be searching for reasons that what you see is not potentially very dangerous?

So, if Castille had shot the cop first because he was scared and HIS life was on the line (which, as it turns out...) then I'm sure you would be defending him too, right?

06-22-2017 , 01:56 PM

#7836

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Zorkman,

There is a multiquote function. Please use it.

06-22-2017 , 01:58 PM

#7837

Oroku$aki

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Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

He had a legal right to own and carry the gun. I thought you were a 2a supporter?

I think what zorkman means to say is that he doesn't understand why a group of people who generally don't like guns are discussing a case of a gun owner being shot. It's confusing to him because, like, shouldn't we be kinda happy/ambivalent about one less gun owner existing?

06-22-2017 , 02:15 PM

#7838

All-In Flynn

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 10,923

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorkman

Ho do you know it did?

Where have I claimed that it did?

06-22-2017 , 02:22 PM

#7839

goofyballer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 70,719

Good article on how the NRA, like Zorkman, has been silent when it comes to the 2nd amendment rights of lawful gun owners like Philando Castile (spoiler: it's because he's black)

06-22-2017 , 02:24 PM

#7840

Trolly McTrollson

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Eight posts in ten minutes, good lord.

06-22-2017 , 03:10 PM

#7841

EddyB66

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That video of his daughter is pretty crushing to watch.

06-22-2017 , 03:25 PM

#7842

Zorkman

banned

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 6,341

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofyballer

Good article on how the NRA, like Zorkman, has been silent when it comes to the 2nd amendment rights of lawful gun owners like Philando Castile (spoiler: it's because he's black)

I support the NRA, but they don't go nearly far enough. The GOA comes closer to my position.

06-22-2017 , 03:33 PM

#7843

SenorKeeed

mew mew mew

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 37,478

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorkman

There wasn't time, apparently.

Just correcting your lie, you said the cop demanded the dead guy show him his hands. You just made this up.

06-22-2017 , 03:41 PM

#7844

Jiggymike

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Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 13,420

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorkman

I support the NRA, but they don't go nearly far enough. The GOA comes closer to my position.

But you think anyone who 1) carries a gun and 2) moves their hands is fair game to open fire at?

06-22-2017 , 03:43 PM

#7845

Zorkman

banned

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 6,341

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorKeeed

Just correcting your lie, you said the cop demanded the dead guy show him his hands. You just made this up.

Please quote the post where I said that the cop said this.

06-22-2017 , 03:43 PM

#7846

Zorkman

banned

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 6,341

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggymike

But you think anyone who 1) carries a gun and 2) moves their hands is fair game to open fire at?

No.

06-22-2017 , 03:47 PM

#7847

H0RUS

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 6,192

Zorkman your "privilige" is clouding your judgement. Please try to look at this from a minorities point of view.

06-22-2017 , 03:49 PM

#7848

goofyballer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 70,719

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorkman

Please quote the post where I said that the cop said this.

lmao Zorkman just likes to say "when officer friendly asks to see your hands" for spur-of-the-moment reasons, not because he's actually suggesting such a thing ever happened. DUH Keeed, isn't it obvious?

Zorkman, bro, you were talking in ATF about how you hit home runs in post after post, why are you clowning on yourself like this?