Here we go again... (unarmed black teen shot by cop): Shootings in LA and MN - Page 26 - Politics and Economics

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Here we go again... (unarmed black teen shot by cop): Shootings in LA and MN

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04-20-2015 , 10:14 PM

#626

ALLTheCookies

half a brain

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 23,373

Yeah I was gonna say paddy wagons usually have separate compartments. A previous Baltimore Sun article states that the van had compartments.

04-20-2015 , 10:15 PM

#627

rjoefish

Got Out the Vote

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31,086

Up and yelling with no visible injury seems like a bold statement from that video.

04-20-2015 , 10:16 PM

#628

rjoefish

Got Out the Vote

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Also, why the hell would an officer ask him to stop so he can finish paperwork? That's the most fishy part of it to me.

04-20-2015 , 10:16 PM

#629

ALLTheCookies

half a brain

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 23,373

Huge lol tho at 'waiting for the facts' while offering up wild speculations over the events that contradict the actual police statements.

Last edited by ALLTheCookies; 04-20-2015 at 10:27 PM.

04-20-2015 , 10:16 PM

#630

Trolly McTrollson

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Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 36,794

Is the term "paddy wagon" racially insensitive? Discuss.

04-20-2015 , 10:24 PM

#631

braves2017

banned

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 734

Can't help think of the "western district way".

04-20-2015 , 10:31 PM

#632

SenorMuresano

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 3,221

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

Up and yelling with no visible injury seems like a bold statement from that video.

Initial reports state there was no injury sustained aside from a spinal injury. I dunno, but that didn't really look like a guy who sustained a spinal cord injury. It looked more like a guy who's mad as hell he's getting locked up

04-20-2015 , 10:32 PM

#633

rjoefish

Got Out the Vote

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31,086

It looks like he's yelling in pain and dragging his legs. I mean, maybe he was just going limp and making some noise but people around seemed to think he was injured so you'd think that would mean something, especially to someone being all 'let's wait to see what the witnesses say'.

04-20-2015 , 10:36 PM

#634

SenorMuresano

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 3,221

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALLTheCookies

Huge lol tho at 'waiting for the facts' while offering up wild speculations over the events that contradict the actual police statements.

The police claim they will release everything on Friday though. No one would believe officer testimony anyways, so needless to say, the other arrestees account (despite being separated by a metal partition) is pretty important, no? Forgive me if I'm not quick to jump on the "they flat out murdered him!" Bandwagon, but I don't think anything I've said qualifies as wild speculation. It just depends on what sequence of events you believe happen

04-20-2015 , 10:39 PM

#635

ALLTheCookies

half a brain

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 23,373

Chicago off-duty cop shoots black woman in head, gets charged with manslaughter. Feared for his life, black guy with her reached for his waistband etc. Judge rules he can't be charged with manslaughter because manslaughter requires a reckless act and the cop firing into 4 people was deliberate and not a reckless act. Acquitted.

Quote:

"It is easy to say, 'Of course [Servin] was reckless. He intentionally shot in the direction of a group of people on the sidewalk. That is really dangerous. ... Case closed,'" Porter said. "It is easy to think that way, but it is wrong. It ignores the law on this subject."

Porter pointed to a history of Illinois court rulings that say: When someone intends to fire a gun, points toward his victim and shoots — much like Servin did on March 21, 2012 — that behavior is not reckless.

http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20150...n-trial-monday

04-20-2015 , 10:42 PM

#636

SenorMuresano

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

At one point in the video he does actually stand up. People hamming it up for cameras when they're getting arrested is not exactly a new thing. It's pretty obvious that the spinal injury occurred after him being initially loaded into the wagon, but prior to arriving at the station. Another individual inside the wagon with him, with no connection to him, and none to the police, would be a good place to start for filling in the gaps. That's all I'm aaying

04-20-2015 , 10:44 PM

#637

rjoefish

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So the people filming that have no connection to him or to the police aren't worth taking note of, and explicitly saying they're wrong/lying, because...?

04-20-2015 , 10:48 PM

#638

LostOstrich

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ALLTheCookies

I'm really curious to read the precedent referred to here, as it seems both grammatically and logically unsound to rule that a deliberate act cannot be reckless.

04-20-2015 , 11:00 PM

#639

SenorMuresano

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 3,221

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

So the people filming that have no connection to him or to the police aren't worth taking note of, and explicitly saying they're wrong/lying, because...?

You mean the people who claimed police were tasing, stomping on him, breaking his leg, etc? Every bit of that is easily disproven. I find it hard to believe everyone is out there with immediate access to camera phones, making outrageous claims of extreme brutality, yet there's not a single second of an officer doing anything aside from kneeling besides him, then picking him up and bringing him to the wagon? Are you familiar with West Baltimore at all?

04-20-2015 , 11:04 PM

#640

ctyri

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Quote:

Originally Posted by LostOstrich

I'm really curious to read the precedent referred to here, as it seems both grammatically and logically unsound to rule that a deliberate act cannot be reckless.

What a sickening ruling.

I was once charged with reckless driving when I was 22. Never occurred to me to use "but I was deliberately driving at a high rate of speed through the apartment complex! " as a defense.

04-20-2015 , 11:08 PM

#641

Louis Cyphre

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In the German legal system we actually have "deliberate recklessness" where you take an action that you know could result in harm to others but engage in it anyway hoping that these adverse consequences will not happen. Dangerous driving maneuvers are a prime example.

04-20-2015 , 11:14 PM

#642

rjoefish

Got Out the Vote

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Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorMuresano

I didn't hear them claiming they were stomping but let's assume that's true. How is it easily disproven? The video appears to start after a potential altercation. What angle shows the entire time he was out of the wagon?

04-20-2015 , 11:16 PM

#643

LostOstrich

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I'd like to think that firing a gun into a crowd of people might also qualify as deliberately reckless!

Irrespective of the legal definitions of recklessness and manslaughter though, it seems that the prosecutor has failed hard in bringing a charge that apparently can't apply.

04-20-2015 , 11:23 PM

#644

SenorMuresano

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

Again I'm not 100%, but in the press conference didn't someone claim initial autopsy showed the only injury sustained was the spinal cord? If officers slammed, kicked, stomped etc, wouldn't there be other signs of injury somewhere on his body? As for video, maybe there is video somewhere showing the complete incident but I haven't seen it.

04-20-2015 , 11:26 PM

#645

ALLTheCookies

half a brain

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 23,373

“While in police custody, his spine was 80% severed at his neck,” William Murphy Jr, an attorney for Gray’s family, said in a statement on Sunday. “We believe the police are keeping the circumstances of Freddie’s death a secret until they develop a version of events that will absolve them of all responsibility.” Relatives said Gray’s voice box was injured and he suffered swelling to his brain.

+3 broken vertabrae

Last edited by ALLTheCookies; 04-20-2015 at 11:31 PM.

04-20-2015 , 11:32 PM

#646

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,097

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorMuresano

At one point in the video he does actually stand up. People hamming it up for cameras when they're getting arrested is not exactly a new thing. It's pretty obvious that the spinal injury occurred after him being initially loaded into the wagon, but prior to arriving at the station. Another individual inside the wagon with him, with no connection to him, and none to the police, would be a good place to start for filling in the gaps. That's all I'm aaying

Who the **** do you think you're fooling with this ****?

You hop into this thread full of piss and vinegar to correct people, then instantly collapse into this quivering ball of vague nonsense, but even within the "oh let's just wait and see how the police statements get validated" you're assuming your conclusion.

A conclusion, by the way, not shared by the Deputy Chief of Police:
"I know Mr. Gray suffered a very traumatic injury, but I don't know if it happened prior to him getting into the van or while he was in the van."

Too bad he didn't ask you, huh?

04-20-2015 , 11:42 PM

#647

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,097

An otherwise healthy man goes into a police wagon, gets driven to the station, and comes out with a severed spinal cord, here's a just a thought:

The burden is on the police to explain that ****. The default assumption is that something went terribly wrong there. Because of, you know, the dead ****ing body.

04-20-2015 , 11:43 PM

#648

SenorMuresano

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 3,221

Uh oh, Fly's here, and he's UPSET!

04-20-2015 , 11:46 PM

#649

SenorMuresano

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 3,221

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

Yea, obviously something went wrong. I'm just not so quick to jump straight to "he was intentionally killed" as others seem to be. Wait til Friday I guess?

04-20-2015 , 11:47 PM

#650

FlyWf

It's the other way

Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 58,097

Quote:

Originally Posted by SenorMuresano

Lolol "committed no crime and was savagely beaten" blah blah blah irt to Gray. You'd think people would've learned in the Mike Brown case not to go HAM right off the bat when they have no clue about the facts of the case, but I guess that's to be expected.

You lost this cocky tone right quick.

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