And Here. We. Go. 2012 Presidential Election: Obama v. Romney - Page 377 - Politics and Economics

Paul D · 07-09-2012, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinlifter

The reason businesses outsource is because our fiscal policy is such that it promotes demand for goods produced overseas instead of promoting demand for goods produced in this country. Borrowing money to create a jobs program is what creates this wrong kind of demand.

Yeah, sure...Try cheap labour....

suzzer99 · 07-09-2012, 02:53 AM

The really really awesome thing about this election is that apparently it's not just going to be decided by swing voters who are too oblivious to have an opinion, but also the subset of those who are too out of it to have a DVR.

It's like Anthony Kennedy's whim times infinity.

seattlelou · 07-09-2012, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinlifter

The reason businesses outsource is because our fiscal policy is such that it promotes demand for goods produced overseas instead of promoting demand for goods produced in this country. Borrowing money to create a jobs program is what creates this wrong kind of demand.

Business outsource to increase profit and in some cases to survive. Tax consequences (fiscal policy) are certainly part of this equation but the rest of your assertions don't really make sense to me.

goofball · 07-09-2012, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinlifter

The general welfare clause is about taxes. Its not about establishing entitlement programs.

LOL. You can't just sit there in your wrongness and be wrong?

Pinlifter · 07-09-2012, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul D

Yeah, sure...Try cheap labour....

Money is just a medium of exchange. Cheap labour overseas means we get lots of cheap(meaning inexpensive and not necessarily shoddy) goods in exchange for more expensive goods. Unfortunately our more expensive goods compete with government issued debt for the money and lose. The ultimate consequence is a flow of manufacturing jobs from America to overseas.

It seems you are finding it wrong for american workers to compete with cheaper foreign workers, but you don't have any problems with american workers competing with government issued debt.

Paul D · 07-09-2012, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinlifter

Money is just a medium of exchange. Cheap labour overseas means we get lots of cheap(meaning inexpensive and not necessarily shoddy) goods in exchange for more expensive goods. Unfortunately our more expensive goods compete with government issued debt for the money and lose. The ultimate consequence is a flow of manufacturing jobs from America to overseas.

It seems you are finding it wrong for american workers to compete with cheaper foreign workers, but you don't have any problems with american workers competing with government issued debt.

No, I just think you're assertions make no sense like Lou said.

Pinlifter · 07-09-2012, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofball

LOL. You can't just sit there in your wrongness and be wrong?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxing_and_Spending_Clause

Quote:

[T]he [General Welfare] clause confers a power separate and distinct from those later enumerated, is not restricted in meaning by the grant of them, and Congress consequently has a substantive power to tax and to appropriate, limited only by the requirement that it shall be exercised to provide for the general welfare of the United States. … It results that the power of Congress to authorize expenditure of public moneys for public purposes is not limited by the direct grants of legislative power found in the Constitution. … But the adoption of the broader construction leaves the power to spend subject to limitations. … [T]he powers of taxation and appropriation extend only to matters of national, as distinguished from local, welfare.

The government has the power to tax and spend to promote the general welfare of the nation. Social safety nets are programs which provide for the welfare of individuals.

seattlelou · 07-09-2012, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinlifter

Money is just a medium of exchange. Cheap labour overseas means we get lots of cheap(meaning inexpensive and not necessarily shoddy) goods in exchange for more expensive goods. Unfortunately our more expensive goods compete with government issued debt for the money and lose. The ultimate consequence is a flow of manufacturing jobs from America to overseas.

It seems you are finding it wrong for american workers to compete with cheaper foreign workers, but you don't have any problems with american workers competing with government issued debt.

Steelhouse gimmick? If so well done.

suzzer99 · 07-09-2012, 03:13 AM

It's Steelhouse 2.0 - The Quickening.

Paul D · 07-09-2012, 03:14 AM

There can only be one?

goofball · 07-09-2012, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinlifter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxing_and_Spending_Clause

The government has the power to tax and spend to promote the general welfare of the nation. Social safety nets are programs which provide for the welfare of individuals.

Holy cow.

All-In Flynn · 07-09-2012, 03:25 AM

Nations are people my friend?

Pinlifter · 07-09-2012, 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seattlelou

Business outsource to increase profit and in some cases to survive. Tax consequences (fiscal policy) are certainly part of this equation but the rest of your assertions don't really make sense to me.

Suppose JoeBob works in a sweatshop making Members Only jackets. Because of the reason you listed his job moves overseas to Pakistan. What do the Pakistanis do with the money we send them for Members Only jackets? Well they buy something from us. Suppose its F16 fighters. Eventhough JoeBob lost his job at the sweatshop, someone else gets a job at the F16 factory. However if Pakistan buys US treasuries instead, Joebob loses his job and no job is created at the F16 plant.

In this simplistic example the borrowing money causes a net loss of jobs.

Paul D · 07-09-2012, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinlifter

Suppose JoeBob works in a sweatshop making Members Only jackets. Because of the reason you listed his job moves overseas to Pakistan. What do the Pakistanis do with the money we send them for Members Only jackets? Well they buy something from us. Suppose its F16 fighters. Eventhough JoeBob lost his job at the sweatshop, someone else gets a job at the F16 factory. However if Pakistan buys US treasuries instead, Joebob loses his job and no job is created at the F16 plant.

In this simplistic example the borrowing money causes a net loss of jobs.

Which has what to do with fiscal policies of the US govt.?

Pinlifter · 07-09-2012, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

It's Steelhouse 2.0 - The Quickening.

Who is Steelhouse?