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| Politics political discourse |
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View Poll Results: Who was the greater President?
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Thomas Jefferson
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38 |
55.88% |
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Abraham Lincoln
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30 |
44.12% |
07-04-2012, 11:30 AM
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#31
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self-banned
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: pooping my big boy pants
Posts: 19,112
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Re: Greatest POTUS, Semifinals: Thomas Jefferson vs Abraham Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by fezjones
reluctantly, jefferson over lincoln, my dad named my brother after thomas jefferson lol. just cant approve of a guy that started a civil war
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He didn't though.
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07-04-2012, 01:32 PM
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#32
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,674
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Re: Greatest POTUS, Semifinals: Thomas Jefferson vs Abraham Lincoln
Slavery is acceptable if it prevent a war that can permit evryone to live freely ?
Strange imo .
Or u belive in liberty,justice or u dont ...
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07-04-2012, 01:33 PM
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#33
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: 2+2 is not a substitute for therapy
Posts: 14,528
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Re: Greatest POTUS, Semifinals: Thomas Jefferson vs Abraham Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealcorp
Slavery is acceptable if it prevent a war that can permit evryone to live freely ?
Strange imo ....
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No one said or even remotely implied that. Try again.
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07-04-2012, 01:37 PM
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#34
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,674
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Re: Greatest POTUS, Semifinals: Thomas Jefferson vs Abraham Lincoln
How do u interpret fezjones comment than ?
Pretty clearly for me anyway , he chooses lincoln over jefferson for this argument.
Unless there is some hidden concept he says that i didnt see trough ?
I know its only a movie and its been romance but , amistad movie with john quincy adams plea to the supreme court , saying slavery was bad and if a war would happend , than let it come and hope its the last american war .
I just felt it was so right what he was saying , dont be afraid for the consequence when its for the greater good , not greater good that can be debated ( like tax or no tax for the purpose of health care for example ) , but for some greater good that isnt debatable , like exactly to end slavery .
Was for me a very powerful movie
Last edited by Montrealcorp; 07-04-2012 at 01:46 PM.
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07-04-2012, 01:53 PM
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#35
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: 2+2 is not a substitute for therapy
Posts: 14,528
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Re: Greatest POTUS, Semifinals: Thomas Jefferson vs Abraham Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealcorp
How do u interpret fezjones comment than ?
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Well, he didn't say anything at all about slavery, so why are you reading things that aren't there?
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07-04-2012, 02:15 PM
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#36
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veteran
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 2,412
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Re: Greatest POTUS, Semifinals: Thomas Jefferson vs Abraham Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealcorp
are we basing our votes on " if " or on what actually " happened " ?
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I am basing it on what actually happened. I am not a Lincoln fan at all. Mainly because the man was so full of contradictions. He was a good politician but a bad person imo. He wanted war and he was going to have it to "save the union." Now he pretty much went against all advice to help fuel this war. Maybe war could have been prevented but I doubt it if he wanted the South and North together. But he was not going to have a peaceful resolution of any sort.
Lincoln violated so many amendments of the Constitution that I could never consider him the greatest president. Lincoln was probably our most powerful president. Mainly cause he did things that should never be done by a president. One he ordered troops to be raised, ordered troops to invade Virginia, stopped a lot of free speech in Maryland, and arrested a bunch of Maryland legislators without charges or bond. There are so many things that Lincoln did that somehow the Congress allowed him to do it.
I am giving the nod to Thomas Jefferson because Lincoln did too many things that are not right. Plus he added a lot of land to the United States.
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07-04-2012, 03:44 PM
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#37
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,674
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Re: Greatest POTUS, Semifinals: Thomas Jefferson vs Abraham Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexM
Well, he didn't say anything at all about slavery, so why are you reading things that aren't there?
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I dunno ...
I mean he says he didny like lincoln because he went with a war and the war was to end slavery ....
For me 2+2=4
U cannot avoid war at any cost imo .
And i am agaisnt war and im a lefty .... Its pretty goes agaisnt my belief but there is always exceptions .
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07-04-2012, 03:58 PM
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#38
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banned
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: what would trevor bauer do
Posts: 2,966
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Re: Greatest POTUS, Semifinals: Thomas Jefferson vs Abraham Lincoln
lol
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07-04-2012, 04:21 PM
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#39
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,674
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Re: Greatest POTUS, Semifinals: Thomas Jefferson vs Abraham Lincoln
Than what is it u met, saying u wont vote for someone who start a civil war to end slavery ?
Btw u have the right to believe w.e u want , i wasnt condeming u
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07-04-2012, 04:59 PM
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#40
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: 2+2 is not a substitute for therapy
Posts: 14,528
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Re: Greatest POTUS, Semifinals: Thomas Jefferson vs Abraham Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealcorp
the war was to end slavery ....
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No. It wasn't. Ending slavery was a very, very nice side effect of the war, but the war was not started for the purpose of ending slavery.
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07-04-2012, 05:11 PM
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#41
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self-banned
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: pooping my big boy pants
Posts: 19,112
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Re: Greatest POTUS, Semifinals: Thomas Jefferson vs Abraham Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexM
No. It wasn't. Ending slavery was a very, very nice side effect of the war, but the war was not started for the purpose of ending slavery.
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The war was started by the south over their ability to succeed how they saw fit. The reason they wanted to succeed was because their ability to keep slavery was threatened. I think slavery is the primary issue here and the root cause of the war.
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07-04-2012, 06:10 PM
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#42
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adept
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,178
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Re: Greatest POTUS, Semifinals: Thomas Jefferson vs Abraham Lincoln
Actually, one might say that Lincoln started the war by running for president in the first place. He knew that several states were planning on secession if he won, and yet he ran anyway. That is completely irresponsible and reprehensible imo. but whateva.
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07-04-2012, 06:11 PM
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#43
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adept
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,178
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Re: Greatest POTUS, Semifinals: Thomas Jefferson vs Abraham Lincoln
Also, in on Thomas Jefferson Day, bitches.
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07-04-2012, 06:15 PM
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#44
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King Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: he must be a popular dude.
Posts: 51,725
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Re: Greatest POTUS, Semifinals: Thomas Jefferson vs Abraham Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by Case Closed
The war was started by the south over their ability to succeed how they saw fit. The reason they wanted to succeed was because their ability to keep slavery was threatened. I think slavery is the primary issue here and the root cause of the war.
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Secession was definitely about slavery.
Invading the CSA is a different matter.
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07-04-2012, 06:15 PM
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#45
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King Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: he must be a popular dude.
Posts: 51,725
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Re: Greatest POTUS, Semifinals: Thomas Jefferson vs Abraham Lincoln
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
Very few people care about the right to secession when it's only ever been used/attempted to preserve the inalienable right to subject black people to incomprehensible suffering.
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