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The Great Student Loan Debate The Great Student Loan Debate

10-29-2015 , 05:22 PM
Lolikes - you keep saying there's all these different loans. So name them? I know the 3 govt ones. Two of which are very similar. And no, because you are a med student, it doesn't mean the program you use is different.

Besides your nitting doesn't really take away from my statement the govt isn't shoveling out cash without limits to the average student aka undergrads.
10-29-2015 , 05:25 PM
Paul D I knew you were wrong and guessed at why. Turns out your basic assertion was wrong. The government is shoveling cash at undergrads with far too few limitations
10-29-2015 , 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWf
I don't understand why they keep making more of these, there have to be a ton of unsophisticated borrowers on the wrong plan.

Like isn't this most recent change just changing the eligibility dates for an existing program? Why is that a new program? Just go to the old program and change the dates. There probably aren't a ton of people that this changes anything for, so hell, the other option is just whatever program those people are in now, eliminate it, sign them all up for the new program.
I would guess the problem is that you can't change the repayment schedule of someone's loan without them agreeing to it. If it's truly the same program with different dates, then it's definitely odd that they called it something else. If it's substantively different in some way, less odd.
10-29-2015 , 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikestoys
Paul D I knew you were wrong and guessed at why. Turns out your basic assertion was wrong. The government is shoveling cash at undergrads with far too few limitations
Except there are quite a few limits. Some put in place by universitities themselves like GPA. Which can be stricter than federal guidelines.
10-29-2015 , 05:47 PM
Arguing whether or not there are limits is stupid semantics, the limits are obviously not enough
10-29-2015 , 06:42 PM
I think they're enough for students working towards productive majors. Obviously I agree with suzzer and others on "useless" majors racking up huge loans. I'm not sure elsewhere in the country, but I know some state schools here have scaled down on art departments and such.
10-29-2015 , 11:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobman0330
I would guess the problem is that you can't change the repayment schedule of someone's loan without them agreeing to it. If it's truly the same program with different dates, then it's definitely odd that they called it something else. If it's substantively different in some way, less odd.
Apparently it's not exactly the same, it has lower payments but worse forgiveness terms than the existing program those people are on so some people would prefer not to switch.
10-30-2015 , 01:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverman
My understanding is that in many European countries the government runs the universities, and if you don't get in you are steered towards trade school type stuff. Seems like a much better approach.
It depends on what you're trying to improve.
10-30-2015 , 01:49 PM
So much of undergrad education can be and should be much cheaper.

Where it remains such poor value for so many there's no great solution in how to pay for it.
10-30-2015 , 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
So much of undergrad education can be and should be much cheaper.

Where it remains such poor value for so many there's no great solution in how to pay for it.

The UK seems to do OK with college expenses that are passed on to students. I don't know if the expense the state incurs is reasonable.
10-30-2015 , 03:22 PM
The Economist value added info graphic

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graph...ollegerankings
10-30-2015 , 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlelou
The UK seems to do OK with college expenses that are passed on to students. I don't know if the expense the state incurs is reasonable.
It's getting worse but even if it's of +ve value it doesn't make it good value.

In the UK I like to see the government organising a (in large part) internet university in the same way they organised the open university many years ago. It's happening anyway but perfect for a progressive public push now.
10-30-2015 , 04:40 PM
Not a major story, but I think it speaks to what is coming for private liberal-arts schools:

Quote:
Rider University slashing 13 majors, laying off professors

Facing a potentially crippling budget crisis, Rider University will slash 13 majors and one minor and eliminate more than 20 jobs, including 14-full-time faculty members, the school announced today.

The unprecedented budget cuts at the private liberal arts college are expected to save more than $2 million a year as Rider tries to close its deficit, already at $7.6 million of this year's $216 million budget, according to the university.

[...]

Tuition and fees at Rider increased 4.2 percent to $38,360 this year while total undergraduate enrollment fell to 3,712, about a 9 percent drop from 2009. The university saw a 14 percent decrease in the number of incoming freshman this fall compared to last year.

Rider's financial problems come as many small private colleges around the nation are struggling to stay out of the red. While elite colleges, including Princeton University, are attracting record numbers of applications and large donations, many smaller liberal arts schools are losing students.

Nationwide, the number of college-age students is declining and the stagnant economy has prompted many families to shy away from small liberal arts schools with high tuition. Private colleges with meager endowments often don't have enough money in the bank to weather enrollment declines.

In the last few years, several small colleges have closed, including Lebanon College in New Hampshire and Mid-Continent University in Kentucky. Others are considering closing or merging with other schools.
http://www.nj.com/education/2015/10/...g_off_pro.html


I've often wondered who is paying $40k a year to attend a middling liberal-arts school like Rider. Those enrollment declines are huge, most small private colleges rely almost exclusively on tuition and fees for their revenue. Losing even 100 students can blow a massive hole in a college's budget.

Seems like the bubble may be bursting for some of these schools. Just way too expensive for what you get.
10-30-2015 , 06:40 PM
10-30-2015 , 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
So much of undergrad education can be and should be much cheaper.

Where it remains such poor value for so many there's no great solution in how to pay for it.
So this. Information has never been easier to obtain. There's no reason for the college model to exist. **** even the first two years of medicine could be done online. I used basically no resources from my own school once I finished anatomy. I used whatever thing on the internet that all other students used, and didn't go to the class I was paying 10k or whatever.

We're paying for school bureaucracy and luxuries, not for education. It's absurd, the cost of education should be dropping precipitously, but our set of policies combined with the belief we all need to go to a traditional college is ****ing everyone over
11-05-2015 , 02:47 AM
Quote:
On virtually every measure of economic well-being and career attainment—from personal earnings to job satisfaction to the share employed full time—young college graduates are outperforming their peers with less education. And when today’s young adults are compared with previous generations, the disparity in economic outcomes between college graduates and those with a high school diploma or less formal schooling has never been greater in the modern era.
Quote:
But do these benefits outweigh the financial burden imposed by four or more years of college? Among Millennials ages 25 to 32, the answer is clearly yes: About nine-in-ten with at least a bachelor’s degree say college has already paid off (72%) or will pay off in the future (17%). Even among the two-thirds of college-educated Millennials who borrowed money to pay for their schooling, about nine-in-ten (86%) say their degrees have been worth it or expect that they will be in the future.
Having a degree isn't a ticket to riches, it's a promise that you won't be impoverished.

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2014/...ng-to-college/
11-05-2015 , 03:07 AM
And that's ****ing moronic. We can do better.
11-05-2015 , 04:12 AM
I don't think a survey is the best way to measure the effects of this. Most of the value of a degree is not in the material covered, but in signaling to the labor market that a candidate is capable of grinding through some work for an extended period of time.

Can we get all the signaling value for less money?
11-05-2015 , 04:12 AM
Quote:
But one theory proposes that charging different prices actually drives up the cost of college because it makes the institutions dependent on tuition from wealthy students to cross-subsidize tuition discounts for poorer students. Those wealthy students expect a certain quality of life at their colleges, one that calls for more spending on the part of those colleges and universities. Thus, the underlying price of the college experience rises, which means higher tuition for everybody.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ch-kids-fault/

      
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