The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 237: Back to Court - Page 2 - Politics and Economics

Err no, obama's largest achievement, and currently basically his entire legacy, is that health care reform bill.

If his presidency ended today, that's basically all he'd be remembered for accomplishing (outside of first black prez) 15 years from now.

12-04-2011 , 11:15 PM

#27

MrWookie

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

Yeah more intellectual dishonesty. Taking only the polls that you want to see is pretty lol.

Well, the last time the GOP actually put out a competing plan on health care reform, IIRC, most if not all of the policy points in their proposal had already been implemented in ObamaCare.

12-04-2011 , 11:51 PM

#28

dinopoker

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

Because it's not 20 years ago? Country as a whole has been moving to the right economically since LBJ. Defining the center as an arbitrarily convenient point 20 years ago is completely intellectually dishonest. Obamacare is well to the left of the current state of US politics.

You forget that a majority of the population supports universal health care.

Oh and of course there was that whole thing where 60,000,000 people voted in the guy who ran on a 'leftist' platform (that included UHC btw).

12-04-2011 , 11:55 PM

#29

ikestoys

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dinopoker

You forget that a majority of the population supports universal health care.

you're going to need a cite.

And people didn't vote for obama for UHC, they voted for not bush.

12-05-2011 , 12:03 AM

#30

snagglepuss

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ikes,

a lot of ppl didn't support obamacare because it wasn't liberal enough.

also, ppl really seem to have been in favor of a public option

12-05-2011 , 12:04 AM

#31

ikestoys

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Quote:

Originally Posted by snagglepuss

ikes,

a lot of ppl didn't support obamacare because it wasn't liberal enough.

also, ppl really seem to have been in favor of a public option

Which is why every poll I've seen recently has a majority or plurality supporting repeal? Sorry dude that one doesn't work either.

Oh, and then there's this:

69% say feds can't make you buy insurance.

12-05-2011 , 12:07 AM

#32

ikestoys

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Most recent UHC poll I can find is Ras, 49-35 against from October. Only polls in favor I can find are from 2009.

12-05-2011 , 12:08 AM

#33

snagglepuss

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wait which of the two points i stated are you trying to be wrong about, or both?

that a bunch of ppl were against the health care reform bill because it wasn't liberal enough?

or that a lot of people were in favor of a public option?

12-05-2011 , 12:50 AM

#34

peetar69

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,553

Are you really saying that you think Obamacare would poll better if it catered more to the far left?

12-05-2011 , 12:51 AM

#35

ikestoys

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Quote:

Originally Posted by snagglepuss

You really think those liberals are favoring repeal because it's not liberal enough? You're going to need cites to back that thesis.

12-05-2011 , 12:58 AM

#36

snagglepuss

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ikes,

*source

Quote:

Originally Posted by article

One year after President Barack Obama signed the health care reform bill into law, a new national poll indicates that attitudes toward the plan have not budged.

According to a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Wednesday, on the one year anniversary of the signing of the law, a majority continue to oppose the measure, but some of the opposition is from Americans who think the law is not liberal enough.

Thirty-seven percent of Americans support the measure, with 59 percent opposed. That's basically unchanged from last March, when 39 percent supported the law and 59 percent opposed the measure.

"It's worth remembering that opposition to the bill came from both the left and the right last year, and that has not changed either," says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. "In 2010, about a quarter of the health care bill's opponents disliked the bill because it was not liberal enough - the same as today. That works out to 13 percent of all Americans who oppose the bill because it did not go far enough. Forty-three percent oppose it because it was too liberal."

im half busy so i will gladly post some more later

12-05-2011 , 12:58 AM

#37

suzzer99

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The polls that show 50%+ favoring Obamacare repeal usually contain about 10% who want to repeal it in favor of a public option.

Also in plenty of the polls people say they are against Obamacare, but then still approve of each major piece of it.

edit: snaggle pony faster

12-05-2011 , 01:00 AM

#38

suzzer99

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

You really think those liberals are favoring repeal because it's not liberal enough? You're going to need cites to back that thesis.

So snaggle, odds now that you "backed that thesis" it will mean a hill of beans to ikes? -2349082349728349237487%

That's why I loves running down rabbit holes for him. When you get the rabbit he just waves it away anyway.

12-05-2011 , 01:01 AM

#39

Fermion5

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Sources tell FOX 5 News that Herman Cain will endorse Newt Gingrich Monday for the GOP Presidential Nominee.

12-05-2011 , 01:02 AM

#40

ikestoys

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Yes snaggle, that's shows the bottom for just about any polling question is 10-15%. By your thesis, obamacare just needs to be more liberal right? So that means UHC would be pretty sweet.

Problem is that UHC polls terribly as well. Repeal is above 50% in most polls. Obamacare isn't close to popular.

12-05-2011 , 01:04 AM

#41

suzzer99

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ikes please show an Obamacare repeal over 50% poll that doesn't include the 10-15% who think it's not liberal enough.

12-05-2011 , 01:04 AM

#42

ikestoys

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Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

What liberals are fighting for repeal suzzer?

If the more liberal option (UHC) is actually popular, why does it get slaughtered in the polls?

You guys are completely misusing polls here.

12-05-2011 , 01:07 AM

#43

suzzer99

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No you are being deliberately obtuse as always. Obamacare polls right down party lines except the 10-15% of grumpy liberals who are making a statement by saying it should be repealed in favor of a public option or single payer. Do you really think those people are calling their congressman demanding that Obamacare and replaced with nothing?

12-05-2011 , 01:07 AM

#44

snagglepuss

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ikes,

which of these two statements is false again?

Quote:

Originally Posted by snagglepuss

a lot of ppl didn't support obamacare because it wasn't liberal enough.

also, ppl really seem to have been in favor of a public option

12-05-2011 , 01:07 AM

#45

ikestoys

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Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

ikes please show an Obamacare repeal over 50% poll that doesn't include the 10-15% who think it's not liberal enough.

Where are all these liberals fighting for repeal? If that number is 10-15% of the electorate, and you assume those people are exclusively democrats, that's 33%-50% of the democratic party. If you assume that's just people left of center, that's 20-30% of the people left of center (not liberals) in the country. Where are these people?

The fact is that these people don't exist in those kind of numbers. People are just dumb when they answer poll questions.

Again, if Obamacare's problem was that it wasn't actually UHC, you wouldn't expect UHC to get slaughtered in public opinion polls, but it does anyways.

12-05-2011 , 01:08 AM

#46

suzzer99

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How about the 67% or whatever that were in favor of letting the Bush tax cuts expire in the wealthy? Do those polls not matter to you? (in before you demand a cite only to handwave it away)

12-05-2011 , 01:09 AM

#47

suzzer99

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ikestoys

Wow that's an impressive collection of words that sort of sound like they're making an argument but really don't mean anything. I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say here. Well done as usual.

There are no liberals fighting for repeal. They're just being grumpy/venting/expressing disenchantment with Obama when they answer the poll. My Dad is a prime example. But does he want to see Obamacare repealed and replaced with nothing? No of course not.

12-05-2011 , 01:13 AM

#48

ikestoys

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More codgy old liberals fighting for UHC:

"The Supreme Court will hear a challenge to the new health care law. Do you want the Supreme Court to uphold the new health care law or overturn it?"

Uphold - 40%
Overturn - 48%

I'm sure a SC strike down would really just push us to UHC...

Seriously, where are these people?

12-05-2011 , 01:17 AM

#49

suzzer99

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Sorry but I take a little more stock in the "Oppose Too Liberal" numbers over 5 different CNN polls spanning a year and a half vs. one Qunnipiac U. poll about the supreme court.