Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Politics political discourse

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-05-2011, 05:23 PM   #151
[Phill]
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
[Phill]'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 52,513
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWorm967 View Post
Well it probably shouldn't cost 300k no matter what's being done, and it's not like we were leaving people to die in the street before government healthcare programs. We have a responsibility to give a human being care if they are in need.
This post strongly contradicts your earlier point against socialised healthcare.
[Phill] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 05:33 PM   #152
renodoc
Casino Olympics Champion
 
renodoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: The old guy always has it.
Posts: 7,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjoefish View Post
So 80/27.4 = ~2.92 x 352.7B$ = ~1.03T$. Seems like more of a scratch to me! I'm really like this idea of robots and chimps.
I was told there would be no math.

cite?

also, some contracts offer me some multiplier of a 2001 medicare fee schedule. Docs haven't had a positive update in a very long time, so being offered what was paid over a decade ago is usually a good deal.

You want to cut physicians' fees by close to 30% on Jan 1 ? We are calling this scenario "SGRmageddon" and if it means I get to compete with robots and chimps, then its probably a good thing. Or maybe it means I can privately negotiate with a patient to determine a fee, instead of working off some AMA-owned CPT book and some Harvard-schemed RBRVS mess.

Imagine, you call a plumber, he fixes your pipes, you pay him cash. wow. bizzaroworld.
renodoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 05:36 PM   #153
suzzer99
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 81,206
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWorm967 View Post
Well it probably shouldn't cost 300k no matter what's being done, and it's not like we were leaving people to die in the street before government healthcare programs. We have a responsibility to give a human being care if they are in need.
Several bone marrow transplants and chemotherapy over say 6 months, or a month in the ICU after a car wreck with massive heroic effort are always going to cost more than most people can ever pay back w/o insurance.

What is your solution to this problem - the status quo where we spread the cost around to the people who are responsible and have insurance? Or something else?
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 05:45 PM   #154
FlyWf
It's the other way
 
FlyWf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: [ ] REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE
Posts: 53,830
Re: The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 231

Quote:
Originally Posted by renodoc View Post
I was told there would be no math.

cite?

also, some contracts offer me some multiplier of a 2001 medicare fee schedule. Docs haven't had a positive update in a very long time, so being offered what was paid over a decade ago is usually a good deal.

You want to cut physicians' fees by close to 30% on Jan 1 ? We are calling this scenario "SGRmageddon" and if it means I get to compete with robots and chimps, then its probably a good thing. Or maybe it means I can privately negotiate with a patient to determine a fee, instead of working off some AMA-owned CPT book and some Harvard-schemed RBRVS mess.

Imagine, you call a plumber, he fixes your pipes, you pay him cash. wow. bizzaroworld.
If you want to keep paying your bills with my tax dollars you could show a little bit of gratitude.
FlyWf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 05:59 PM   #155
dinopoker
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
dinopoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Must...bet...more!
Posts: 7,376
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWorm967 View Post
I'm speechless, everyone benefits except the people whose money was stolen to pay for it.
Actually they benefit the most of all, because of this:

Spoiler:


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWorm967 View Post
Well it probably shouldn't cost 300k no matter what's being done,
It does though. Or do you now want to regulate what hospitals can charge for providing care, you commie?


Quote:
and it's not like we were leaving people to die in the street before government healthcare programs.
Um yeah, that's pretty much exactly what was happening. Still happens now, in fact, to an estimated 45,000 people a year.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n5318652.shtml


Quote:
We have a responsibility to give a human being care if they are in need.
Um what? Did someone else write this last sentence?

(BTW, why not give them preventative care so that we can keep them healthy at far less cost?)
dinopoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 06:10 PM   #156
jjshabado
Carpal Tunnel
 
jjshabado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,558
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWorm967 View Post
We have a responsibility to give a human being care if they are in need.
How is it not "stealing" to take my money to treat these people?

I honestly can't take any person seriously that feels the need to use the term "stealing" to refer to taxes. Especially not people that accept that there actually are some things the Government needs to be doing.
jjshabado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 06:20 PM   #157
TheWorm967
grinder
 
TheWorm967's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: gettin 19 callers on an 18 man table
Posts: 639
Re: The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 231

Dino, you can't "destribute wealth" without using force and that is wrong no matter how you look at it. Without big daddy gov stealing our cash we'd be in better position to donate money to things like charity hospitals and care for people in dire circumstances. If that's what people chose to do with their money.

And whatever happened to the Hippocratic Oath?
TheWorm967 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 06:28 PM   #158
renodoc
Casino Olympics Champion
 
renodoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: The old guy always has it.
Posts: 7,787
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWorm967 View Post
And whatever happened to the Hippocratic Oath?
which part? the part about taking care of the masses for free?
renodoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 06:31 PM   #159
dinopoker
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
dinopoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Must...bet...more!
Posts: 7,376
Re: The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 231

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWorm967 View Post
Dino, you can't "destribute wealth" without using force and that is wrong no matter how you look at it.
Please explain how it is wrong. We live in a democracy that passes laws, some of which involve taxing people. What's wrong with that?

Quote:
Without big daddy gov stealing our cash we'd be in better position to donate money to things like charity hospitals and care for people in dire circumstances. If that's what people chose to do with their money.
Except no one would. Why should they? If the government taxed ME less I'd use the money on hookers and blow, not on some charity hospital.

In fact, in the real world, the bulk of people who give to charity do it because of the tax write off.
dinopoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 06:40 PM   #160
jjshabado
Carpal Tunnel
 
jjshabado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,558
Re: The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 231

The Worm967 - how does:

Quote:
Dino, you can't "destribute wealth" without using force and that is wrong no matter how you look at it.
jive with:

Quote:
We have a responsibility to give a human being care if they are in need.
Unless you mean responsibility to mean "some moral responsibility that isn't enforced at all and that is totally meaningless to the course of this discussion".
jjshabado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 06:41 PM   #161
TheWorm967
grinder
 
TheWorm967's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: gettin 19 callers on an 18 man table
Posts: 639
Re: The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 231

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinopoker View Post
Please explain how it is wrong. We live in a democracy that passes laws, some of which involve taxing people. What's wrong with that?



Except no one would. Why should they?
Why is force wrong? Really? And o yea all laws are just I forgot about that.

Then it's a cop-out and you're a hypocrite to say you want the poor and needy to be taken care of but only when you're threatened with violence.
TheWorm967 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 06:42 PM   #162
TheWorm967
grinder
 
TheWorm967's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: gettin 19 callers on an 18 man table
Posts: 639
Re: The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 231

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjshabado View Post
The Worm967 - how does:



jive with:



Unless you mean responsibility to mean "some moral responsibility that isn't enforced at all and that is totally meaningless to the course of this discussion".
lol thats exactly what I mean, got me there
TheWorm967 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 06:56 PM   #163
dinopoker
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
dinopoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Must...bet...more!
Posts: 7,376
Re: The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 231

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWorm967 View Post
Why is force wrong? Really? And o yea all laws are just I forgot about that.
Speaking of cop-outs. I didn't ask why force was wrong, I asked why a taxation law passed by a democratically elected body was wrong.

Force doesn't enter into it unless someone chooses to not pay, and then the same amount of force applies as if they choose not pay their plumber or something. It goes to the courts and if the IRS/plumber shows they are owed the money, the court allows them to seize property to collect. As in most court proceedings, you're free to show up and present your case as to why you shouldn't pay. The judge will listen, I promise.

Quote:
Then it's a cop-out and you're a hypocrite to say you want the poor and needy to be taken care of but only when you're threatened with violence.
Please study reading. I was making the point that most people don't contribute to charity, and those that do often do it because of the tax write off.

Now, this is the real world and we are discussing possible real-world solutions to how to provide health care in the USA. A certain amount of taxation and government already exists, and the point of the discussion is how to proceed from there. I know you would rather argue whether taxation should be allowed at all, but that's a separate discussion and I think you'll find it in one of the numerous AC threads started by the other people who flunked politics 101.
dinopoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 07:00 PM   #164
jjshabado
Carpal Tunnel
 
jjshabado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,558
Re: The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 231

Worms,

How do you jive your beliefs with the current reality? I mean, if you believe that people would take care of the poor through charitable donations why does the US have so many people that aren't being taken care of?
jjshabado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 07:36 PM   #165
TheWorm967
grinder
 
TheWorm967's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: gettin 19 callers on an 18 man table
Posts: 639
Re: The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 231

JJ- I think people are in no position to be charitable right now, but without bad government monetary policy and without the gov sticking it's hands in our pockets every chance it gets, the people who cared about taking care of the needy would be in better shape to do so. The free-market is better at reducing costs and improving services than government will be.

dino- I have no idea what you're talking about I answered you're question and you're still giving me ****. You're just glossing over the fact that your glorious government program involves taking more of my money.
TheWorm967 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 08:36 PM   #166
jjshabado
Carpal Tunnel
 
jjshabado's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 21,558
Re: The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 231

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWorm967 View Post
JJ- I think people are in no position to be charitable right now, but without bad government monetary policy and without the gov sticking it's hands in our pockets every chance it gets, the people who cared about taking care of the needy would be in better shape to do so. The free-market is better at reducing costs and improving services than government will be.
Do you have any actual evidence to back this up or is it just your feeling?
jjshabado is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 08:55 PM   #167
peetar69
old hand
 
peetar69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,554
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by [Phill] View Post
ikes,

it was mostly a Republican bill. All the big details came directly from Republican ideas.

Just because they moves so far off the bat**** level of right wing crazy doesnt mean Obama is anything but a centrist doing a lot of stuff Republicans liked before they went bat**** crazy.

Talk about bat**** crazy.

Republicans were not givin an ounce of respect or influence during the intire creation of the bill. The bill did not receive a single republican vote. Every time republicans would try to have any influence on the bill, Berry would say" You drove the car into the ditch, you gotta sit in the backseat now"
There isn't one sentence in that bill that came from a republican commitee member.

The democrat party has swong bat**** crazy, and HAD to write the bill as written to get the votes of historically "normal" democrats. The right wing influnce on the bill came from the non-Marxist wing of the democrat party.
peetar69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 09:17 PM   #168
ApeStylez
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 246
Re: The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 231

Who specifically is part of the marxist wing IYO?
ApeStylez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 09:29 PM   #169
FleeingFish
banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,556
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
ikes please show an Obamacare repeal over 50% poll that doesn't include the 10-15% who think it's not liberal enough.
This make no sense to me.....

Who's to say Obama-care would not draw more opposition if it were "more liberal" as you say, consequently making the 10-15% irrelevant? You are operating under a faulty premise on how much those numbers actually impact the general public's opinion.
FleeingFish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 09:33 PM   #170
FlyWf
It's the other way
 
FlyWf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: [ ] REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE
Posts: 53,830
Re: The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 231

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApeStylez View Post
Who specifically is part of the marxist wing IYO?
Newt Gingrich, Chuck Grassley, Mitt Romney, etc.
FlyWf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 09:34 PM   #171
FlyWf
It's the other way
 
FlyWf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: [ ] REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE
Posts: 53,830
Re: The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 231

I have here in my hand a list of 205—a list of names that were made known to the Secretary of State as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping policy in the State Department.
FlyWf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 09:42 PM   #172
Money2Burn
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Misreading your post.
Posts: 10,911
Re: The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 231

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjoefish View Post
So 80/27.4 = ~2.92 x 352.7B$ = ~1.03T$. Seems like more of a scratch to me! I'm really like this idea of robots and chimps.
OldGloryrobotinsurance.mpg

#unintendedconsequences
Money2Burn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 09:46 PM   #173
rjoefish
Got Out the Vote
 
rjoefish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Organizing strip club workers
Posts: 31,086
Re: The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 231

Definitely an intended consequence if Sam Waterston is involved.
rjoefish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 09:48 PM   #174
Ineedaride2
Politics Court Jester
 
Ineedaride2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Warning: This post contains sarcasm
Posts: 22,781
Re: The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 231

This thread really should've stopped immediately when 13ball and ikestoys agreed.
Ineedaride2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 10:01 PM   #175
dinopoker
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
dinopoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Must...bet...more!
Posts: 7,376
Re: The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 231

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWorm967 View Post
JJ- I think people are in no position to be charitable right now, but without bad government monetary policy and without the gov sticking it's hands in our pockets every chance it gets, the people who cared about taking care of the needy would be in better shape to do so. The free-market is better at reducing costs and improving services than government will be.
Actually history has shown that the free market does staggeringly worse than governments when it comes to reducing costs and improving services in health care. Hell, the current US system is an example. When compared to the government-run plans around the world, Americans are spending more and getting less than pretty much all of them.


Quote:
dino- I have no idea what you're talking about I answered you're question and you're still giving me ****. You're just glossing over the fact that your glorious government program involves taking more of my money.
And again, the math shows that PPACA will actually save money.
dinopoker is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online