The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 237: Back to Court - Page 894 - Politics and Economics

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The Great ObamaCare Debate, Part 237: Back to Court

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06-22-2017 , 12:13 PM

#22326

Namath12

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I've heard some crit of O-care in my day but "Bad idea, good theory" is a first

06-22-2017 , 12:20 PM

#22327

Namath12

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No polling yet on the Senate bill but this is out re the House version

Just mind-boggling that they're going through with this

06-22-2017 , 12:21 PM

#22328

phillydilly

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

https://twitter.com/nicholas_bagley/...08643517267968

?

i think this has something to do with procedural rules. Something about a bill that raises the deficit after a 10 year period.

06-22-2017 , 12:26 PM

#22329

Huehuecoyotl

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Quote:

Originally Posted by phillydilly

i think this has something to do with procedural rules. Something about a bill that raises the deficit after a 10 year period.

oh yea I hadn't thought of that.

06-22-2017 , 12:27 PM

#22330

Huehuecoyotl

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https://twitter.com/JHWeissmann/stat...01580887928832

We're about to get Zeno's paradox of Medicaid spending.

06-22-2017 , 12:28 PM

#22331

Namath12

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06-22-2017 , 12:31 PM

#22332

Huehuecoyotl

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What's worst about this is the absolute craven lying going on. The kind of lying that only happens in the service of ideology that can't stand up to public scrutiny.

06-22-2017 , 12:39 PM

#22333

d10

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This seems very similar to Obamacare, but cut subsidies a bit, cut Medicaid a lot, and cut taxes.

06-22-2017 , 12:42 PM

#22334

uDevil

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https://twitter.com/aravosis/status/877925724031770624

06-22-2017 , 12:46 PM

#22335

Trolly McTrollson

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Who the **** told dems it was a smart way to frame health insurance as "OME SIXTH OF THE US ECONOMY!!!!?" Kids with cancer are getting arrested and Cuck Schumer is bloviating about how Republcians are going to ruin one sixth of the economy. Mother****er, this is going to kill people.

06-22-2017 , 12:54 PM

#22336

phillydilly

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

little known fact, but dems are slightly behind reps in messaging.

06-22-2017 , 12:55 PM

#22337

uDevil

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"They dropped one." I can just hear McConnell turtle-giggling.

https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/877913795988930560

06-22-2017 , 01:00 PM

#22338

Huehuecoyotl

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Once enacted the Medicaid cuts won't be easily reversed

http://www.cbpp.org/health/commentar...asily-reversed

It mentions TANF whose cuts have never been reversed, the cuts are planned to become more extensive over time making the pain to reverse them harder and harder and that future congresses have a pattern of simply tweaking the metric to determine the per capita rate to exacerbate cuts in order to make up budgetary shortfalls.

06-22-2017 , 01:05 PM

#22339

spidercrab

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From the Vox overview here (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...nciliation-act), this part is puzzling:

Quote:

The Senate would eliminate the individual mandate by setting the penalty for not carrying health insurance to zero dollars. They can’t completely wipe it off the books due to the complex rules of the budget reconciliation process, but this would have the same effect.

The Senate bill does not have any replacement policy for the individual mandate, any negative financial consequence for skipping out on health insurance. This is different from the House bill, which had a requirement that Americans keep “continuous coverage” or else face higher premiums when they reenter the market.

The Senate bill still requires insurance companies to accept all patients, regardless of how sick they might be or what preexisting conditions they have. Building a health insurance system without an individual mandate or any replacement policy runs a significant risk of falling into a death spiral, where only the sickest people buy coverage and premiums keep ticking upward.

I don't understand how a prohibition on pre-existing condition exclusions is supportable without an individual mandate or something similar.

This bill is just a stunning indication of how much better Rs are at messaging. It's a giant tax cut based on cutting medicaid, and they're saying with a straight face that it's going to lead to improved health outcomes. It's appalling.

06-22-2017 , 01:10 PM

#22340

spidercrab

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Oh, and this is a cool feature, too:

06-22-2017 , 01:45 PM

#22341

synth_floyd

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If the GOP bill passes, they will win the battle but lose the war. A nationwide single payer system will be inevitable. Unfortunately, many people will get go broke, sick, and/or die in the process.

06-22-2017 , 01:56 PM

#22342

spidercrab

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I don't know who this Avik Roy dude is (other than someone who is a lock to have employer-provided health insurance), but that is one spicy take:

06-22-2017 , 02:02 PM

#22343

Huehuecoyotl

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Quote:

Originally Posted by spidercrab

From the Vox overview here (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...nciliation-act), this part is puzzling:

I don't understand how a prohibition on pre-existing condition exclusions is supportable without an individual mandate or something similar.

This bill is just a stunning indication of how much better Rs are at messaging. It's a giant tax cut based on cutting medicaid, and they're saying with a straight face that it's going to lead to improved health outcomes. It's appalling.

I disagree on the messaging part. The bill has something like a 15% approval rating. To have effective messaging your message has to be effective. They aren't cutting Medicare because it's popular to do so, they're doing it because they have an unpopular ideological commitment to cut taxes for the rich and reduce services for the poor beyond all reasonable measures. To do so they've resorted to out and out lying.

06-22-2017 , 02:07 PM

#22344

MrWookie

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Quote:

Originally Posted by spidercrab

I think they have to sell plans, but those plans don't have to cover the preexisting condition.

06-22-2017 , 02:08 PM

#22345

spidercrab

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

Right, it's that latter part that they're somehow able to do - resort to out and out lying without there being obvious consequences. That's what I was thinking of as being better at messaging. But I take your point that calling it "messaging" is inaccurate. I should have said that Rs are better at bull****ting without consequence.

06-22-2017 , 02:08 PM

#22346

wheatrich

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Quote:

Originally Posted by synth_floyd

If the GOP bill passes, they will win the battle but lose the war. A nationwide single payer system will be inevitable. Unfortunately, many people will get go broke, sick, and/or die in the process.

Does this bill look like it's from people thinking they're going to lose the war? No, it doesn't.

06-22-2017 , 02:09 PM

#22347

spidercrab

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

I think they have to sell plans, but those plans don't have to cover the preexisting condition.

You might be right. But that's only possible for those states seeking the waiver from the essential health benefits, right?

06-22-2017 , 02:15 PM

#22348

Biesterfield

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Quote:

Originally Posted by spidercrab

I don't know who this Avik Roy dude is (other than someone who is a lock to have employer-provided health insurance), but that is one spicy take:

He is a big proponent of free market solutions toward health care for all. NeverTrumper conservative.

Not saying his take is right, but the couple times Ive heard him speak he comes across as really smart and articulate.

06-22-2017 , 02:23 PM

#22349

AllTheCheese

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lol @ free market solution to healthcare for all.

Or do you mean that "healthcare for all" is the problem? In which case, yeah, free market will definitely solve it.

06-22-2017 , 02:27 PM

#22350

AllTheCheese

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Calling this Better Care is too much. My faith in the public is right around zero atm, so I do feel that this will work in a "Brawndo's got electrolytes" way.

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