Not related to what's been posted here, but doctors having to help people in the emergency room doesn't have anything to do with the Hippocratic Oath though. It's because a law was passed that said they couldn't be turned away. To say that things will be OK because of the altruistic feelings of doctors is just a cop out to avoid the real issue. There's no doctor in the world that thinks that taking a patient in just to stabilize them in the ER and then push them right back out is the best method of patient care. They do it because that's the health system we got.

When uninsured poor people are cared for in ERs not only is the cost substantially higher to society but the outcomes are much poorer than if they had been insured and tested/diagnosed/treated earlier.

We all know people who have had cancer. Think about what would have happened if they weren't tested when they were and were diagnosed sometime later. The likelihood that the cancer would have spread is substantial and their life expectancy would have been lower.

A study was done comparing Massachusettes residents (close to 100% insured) against counties in other states with similar demographics but less coverage. What the study found was that for each 800 people with insurance one life is saved every year. When 10 million more people are insured, 12,500 lives are spared per year. When 10 million people lose their insurance, 12,500 people will die. Each year.

Maybe the thing to say to the RWNJ is that doctors can't save people who are already dead regardless of what kind of oath they took.

The Intercept got the ALEC conference calls where Republicans discuss the next phase of the Obamacare repeal. The mandated bundles are next. Expect a lot of "why do I have to pay for that..." coming up

https://theintercept.com/2017/03/10/...peal-strategy/

Out of 10 million people, 10 million will die. 100% guaranteed.

Better medicine usually equates to better outcomes which means living longer. But every single person will hit their end point. And it is financially draining the older people get.

***Up to five million Americans today suffer from dementia, a number that is expected to triple by 2050, as people live longer and the elderly population increases.***

What is also painful about this statistic is the emotional and financial toll it will take on an increase of family members. It punishes them sometimes more than the actual patient.

Tough choices. There is a limited amount of resources. If you get a person to 90-years old but the cost and quality of life from 90 to 95 will be poor, is it even worth it. Who is going to pay for all this? We aren't going to hurt anybody and I don't think we are advocating for old people to commit suicide either.

From wikipedia:
Aggressive medical intervention leaves nearly two million Americans confined to nursing homes, and over 1.4 million Americans remain so medically frail as to survive only through the use of feeding tubes. As many as 30,000 persons are kept alive in comatose and permanently vegetative states.

Cost burdens to individuals and families are considerable. A national study found that: “In 20% of cases, a family member had to quit work;” 31% lost “all or most savings” (even though 96% had insurance).

Ouch. And everyone still dies. Maybe we all need to do our advanced directives.

Jeez, golf...

It is too bad we spend 2x more than other countries with no better outcomes and we can't just replicate what works everywhere else. So many reasons that have developed over 50 years that can't be fixed quickly. And our quirky culture.

This will be massive. They might even be able to deliver, in some cases, cheaper premiums to some but with that caveat that necessary stuff is not covered at all. There is no way that goes well.

One solid point for the ACA is it provided a minimum level of coverage so when people were comparing plans they at least knew they were comparing apple varieties and not apples and turnips.

I think this is going to spread to employee coverage as well as employer costs have continued to rise unabated and you will see companies providing really crappy coverage.

P1: "Donald Trump is the best. He got rid of that horrible Obamacare and my premium went from $425 a month to $309 a month. MAGA"

P2: "Looking at your plan it seems it does not cover hospitalization of any kind and does not cover prescription drugs. MAGA?"

We are reverting back to a time when we needed Virginian connmen to recommend what insurance you need because no two programs will be comparable and we will not be able to assume anything is covered.

Not going to lie, as much time as some of us have spent discussing this issue in this thread I am not sure I could have envisioned such a cluster. A hardcore GOP idealist plan would be better than this absurd plan.

Ok markksman, it appears we are in agreement here:

By reducing the amount of "required" health care services in a "qualified" plan, one can reduce the premiums.

This isn't necessarily problematic, the devil is in the details.

So let's go to the source and list what are Essential Requirements right now in existing law/regulation:

https://www.healthcare.gov/coverage/...e-plans-cover/

All plans offered in the Marketplace cover the same set of essential health benefits.

Every health plan must cover the following services:

Ambulatory patient services (outpatient care you get without being admitted to a hospital)
Emergency services
Hospitalization (like surgery and overnight stays)
Pregnancy, maternity, and newborn care (both before and after birth)
Mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment (this includes counseling and psychotherapy)
Prescription drugs
Rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices (services and devices to help people with injuries, disabilities, or chronic conditions gain or recover mental and physical skills)
Laboratory services
Preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management
Pediatric services, including oral and vision care (but adult dental and vision coverage aren’t essential health benefits)
Additional benefits

Plans must also include the following benefits:

Birth control coverage
Breastfeeding coverage

Essential health benefits are minimum requirements for all Marketplace plans. Specific services covered in each broad benefit category can vary based on your state’s requirements. Plans may offer additional benefits, including:

Dental coverage
Vision coverage
Medical management programs (for specific needs like weight management, back pain, and diabetes)


I highlighted in red health care services that some may argue are above and beyond minimum essential requirements.

Let's be clear. I am not arguing that those highlighted health care services are worthless, without value, not nice to have, etc. For the sake of argument though, is it out of the realm of reasonable for a health plan, let's call it the Tin (you know, worse than Bronze) plan, to be offered on the exchanges as a "choice" for some? Perhaps the Tin plan can reduce premiums by 20%?

So nobody buys the plan that covers pregnancy and baby care until they get pregnant, so that plan cost skyrockets and it costs you $2,000 a month to have a baby

And nobody buys the plan that covers rehab until they get injured and need it so that plan cost skyrockets...gonna be great when you get in a car accident and need months of rehab and have to pay for an expensive insurance plan if you want to walk properly again...if you are poor you can just be crippled and be shut out of tons of jobs the rest of your life because you couldn't afford the "tin plan"

And people don't buy birth control plans so abortions go way up

I think the point is, he personally doesn't need to worry about getting pregnant so why should he gaf.

Yes this is exactly it. This is why we can't have people like Paul Ryan that don't have the first clue how insurance works designing health insurance for people. The only good solution is to vote out every last Republican until we have people in office who believe in math and science.

Yeah but he may need rehab, so was strange he included that

Best guess is that he thought it meant rehab for drugs/alcohol

This is 100 percent bullshit. The reason isn't "culture" and "reasons." It's mother****ing Republicans.

Yeah this can't be said enough.

Oh golly gee willikers what a strange and disappointing bind we have ourselves in here! Since things are so ****ed up we obviously can't enact the obvious solutions!!!

**** you Republicans

Why when these Republican congressmen bring up the pregnancy coverage that men have to pay for doesn't a Democrat hit back with, "So what you want to do, if I understand what you're getting at, is exclude pregnancy coverage and birth control for mens' plans, and we'll exclude prostate cancer, viagra and testicular cancer for women... and the risk of heart disease is higher for men, so we better reduce the cost of that for women. Sound about right?"

That line of response could actually legitimately lead to... "So, you don't think it's an invasion of a woman's privacy or rights with medical decisions to be all up in her business about birth control and whether she wants to have kids. You don't want to pay for her ability to control that. Is it an invasion of your privacy, Congressman, for her to be up in your business about whether you can still get an erection on your own? What if she doesn't want to pay for your inability to have erections? By the way, erectile dysfunction medications are more expensive than birth control."

Also, imagine the GOP head explosion if a female Congresswoman said that.

First-year doctors will be allowed to work 24-hour shifts starting in July
http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifest...310-story.html

We don't take care of our elderly like other countries
We tend to have unhealthier lifestyles and eat proceeded food
We pay much more for pharmaceutical goods
We want things immediately
We extend life longer with machinery that is very expensive
We have enormous for-profit insurance companies
We have companies that have historically paid for most of healthcare but pushing more on to employees
We run more lab tests
We want pills for everything at a much higher rate than other countries
Our doctors want and expect higher salaries

I don't see what republicans have to do with it or how democrats can fix it. Perhaps some of the issues over many years.

With single payer, costs would go down despite all of those things. And some of those things would be fixed by single payer.

So you support single payer, right?

Maybe. If we get rid of all the insurance companies, there will be a lot of unemployed people. So many healthcare administrators that provide zero healthcare. I don't know how we can redeploy them.

Spending more or less on healthcare doesn't equate necessarily to good health or care. There should be a minimum of support for all though. Don't know how much we should spend on prolonging life and what is the quality determinant.

We can easily make it so 100% have insurance. Make the deductible $25k or $50k. That should cover 99% of people. We are getting closer to that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am dumber for having read that.

wow you arent kidding

https://www.healthpocket.com/healthc...ms-deductibles

***The average deductible for 2017 bronze plans marks the first time this average has crossed the $6,000 threshold. Compared to 2016’s average of $5,731, the 2017 average bronze plan deductible for individuals is 6% higher ($6,092). For families enrolled in bronze plans, the average deductible is over $12,000 in 2017.***




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Too Big to Fail!