http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/08...tstodoctor.htm

Americans Make Nearly Four Medical Visits a Year On Average

For Immediate Release: August 6, 2008

The premiums for single coverage in 2008 averaged almost $400 per month and nearly $5,000 per year.
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So in 2008 the average medical visit cost Americans $1250. There must be a less expensive system.

In its present iteration, maybe. However the actual ideas in it came from the GOP and Heritage Foundation's alternative plan they presented back when the Dems were trying to pass Hillarycare (the same plan adopted by Romney in Mass. fwiw). Fast forward 20 years and they're against their own ideas. Care to explain to me why, because I can't figure it out.

Unless...

stuff like median is very important here.

As soon as Hillarycare became a non-starter, so did the mandate (less the Mass. law). Rewind 20 years. Over the course of those twenty years, can you name a plan a republican member of congress, senate, or president has put forth to try to make a mandate the law? No.

Can you not see how the "alternative plan" was a political vehicle used to create a highly visible debate in opposition to Hilliarys' socialized medicine plan? Squashing that train wreck is another thing to be thankful to Newt for.

Does anybody have a link to a good study on where the US is bleeding money in health care compared to other 1st world nations?

I know that we pay more per individual and live less years compared to most other comparable countries. Do we pay more for the same procedures, have worse doctors, pay more for pharmaceuticals, just cuz we fatter? lawyers fault? Anybody know?

Prescription drug prices in the United States article in Wikipedia.

Disclaimer on Wikipedia.

We don't go to the doctor any more than people in other countries and we don't stay in the hospital longer either. So why do we spend so much more? It's the prices, stupid.

Our healthcare costs more. It's the best in world. You can get from GP to specialist to surgery much faster here.

We are bleeding money on alot of stuff also. Lots of wastes and unneeded visits, tests and proceedures. Sick high malpractice insurance costs (see extra tests, visits, and proceedures). Very, Very expensive to get FDA to approve a new drug. Lots of fraud against insurance Cos., medicare.

We have really high wages across the board here also. If plumbers, accountants, and dock workers make more money here, it is understandable that doctors and nurses do to.

So then back when they said it was good they were lying? Good to know.

Wait, how do I know that they weren't telling the truth back then and lying now? Because Newt says so?

Sometime in teh 90s TIME magazine did a great article regarding the pharm industry and the gouging of the US. I think it's in their archives as I remember finding it awhile back.

b

Nurse practitioners and physician's assistants do this too, bro.

No, it's systemic.

http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wo...-introduction/

The bracket is the excess spending in the US:



This is what comprises that bracket with the portions physicians are responsible for highlighted:



That story is told in Atul Gawande's Complications IIRC. Good read for those interested.

This series covers it pretty well: http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wo...-introduction/

And in other news, people almost never have their homes burn down but they still pay for insurance on their homes.

That seems like a funny way to define "best in the world". The reality is that when you actually try to compare patient outcomes you find out that the US doesn't have the best health care in the world.

There have been a number of studies showing that - but here's one showing that the US does not have better overall outcomes than Canada: http://www.openmedicine.ca/article/view/8/1

And, of course, you can also look at things like infant mortality rate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...mortality_rate) or life expectancy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy) to again see that the US is not the best in the world.

While there's some arguments to be had that the US "funds the rest of the world" (which I don't really buy) or that the wealthy can get access to the best care in the world (which I do buy) you need to at least admit that the current system is not the best in the world by most metrics.

people screaming at the Republican bubble itt

Home owners' insurance isn't rising 3 to 5 times the rate of inflation every year.

I always love it when some Saudi prince (recently the King himself) travel to the US for medical care and the conservatives start screaming stuff about how great US health care is and that libruls should stop complaining. Even the King of Saudi-Arabia wants to get his care here!

They of course forget that the random conservative probably can't even afford to talk to the secretary of the clinic the royals visit. True. So?

Your point about the average cost of a medical visit still makes no sense.

And you thought I was unreasonable for calling taxation confiscation.

I thought this piece by John Stossel was very well done. I agree the present system needs reform but more government involvement is not the answer. Why do services that insurance doesn't cover go down in price while covered services go up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WnS96NVlMI

Source

The Worm, that piece is horrible. Is this the type of thing you base most of your opinions on?

Edit: I don't mean that in a partisan way. There are lots of people that disagree with me on health care where their opinions are based on different moral beliefs and how that influences how they react to actual facts - that's cool. But to think that piece has any sort of value in a health care debate is ridiculous.

How is it horrible? I mean I don't know why I'm bothering since this is clearly an Obamacare lovefest but It really boils down to the fact that I don't want to give away more of my money to fund this program and I don't think I should be forced to. Clearly them majority feel the same way but whatever let's ram it down their throats cause it's good for them right? Government sucks at most things and this will be no different.

It's horrible because it's a bunch of anecdotal stories that are used to derive a specific conclusion when the same anecdotal stories could also be used to derive a host of other contradictory conclusions.

For example, the claim is made that "Lots of money is wasted on paperwork" but one way to deal with that is to have a single government-run insurance system (The amount of paperwork I deal with in Canada is significantly less than what I dealt with in the States).

Or ways to deal with people getting too many procedures done on their insurance is to introduce modest co-pays, waiting lists, or independent decision makers. I'm not claiming any/all of these are good ideas just pointing out that they'd also address the problem mentioned.

Your posts:

and

don't seem to be based in actual facts. You have these personal beliefs but haven't given any evidence to back them up (the bolded being the most ridiculous claim).

Dude what? really I need to explain to you that I'd have more money If I wasn't taxed for bull**** programs I don't support? How's government run education gone?

Of course not. You need to explain how with that extra money you and everyone else is going to suddenly feel generous enough that you take care of all of those sick people that use to get treated by the Government.

And government run education has gone better than a completely free-market education system.

Before managed care Americans, even poor Americans, could afford to visit the doctor. You only paid for care you used. Not care others used.