Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Politics political discourse

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-05-2011, 01:20 AM   #51
suzzer99
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 80,775
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Yeah and who has the word "repeal" been hammered home by as they've been hogging all the limelight the last few months? Hmmmm. You think maybe when the real campaign starts and the positive Obamacare commercials start, maybe those poll #s creep up a little? Half the democrat base has probably forgotten what's even in Obamacare right now.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 01:23 AM   #52
suzzer99
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 80,775
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

The funny thing is none of the republicans except RP would actually try to repeal it when they get into office. The health insurance industry is poring way too much money into their campaigns, and by that time people will actually start to get some of the benefits. My uncle is a 55-year-old general contractor who has gotten absolutely ****ed by private insurance. Is Mitt Romney really going to yank the rug out from under him like that?

It's just more pandering to their base then do the exact opposite when they get into office, just like the small govt Bush admin and 2000-2006 congress. (Or Obama on a lot of stuff.)
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 01:25 AM   #53
ikestoys
banned
 
ikestoys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: and don't vote trump/sanders
Posts: 94,444
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Yeah and who has the word "repeal" been hammered home by as they've been hogging all the limelight the last few months? Hmmmm. You think maybe when the real campaign starts and the positive Obamacare commercials start, maybe those poll #s creep up a little? Half the democrat base has probably forgotten what's even in Obamacare right now.
Obamacare has never been popular. It was a meme from dems that once it actually started kicking in, people would start to like it. That hasn't worked out so far.

The problem is that the repeal question is pretty clear evidence that the approve/disapprove because it's too liberal is an artifact more than anything. According to that type of poll, you'd expect UHC and repeal to poll at about 60-40 advantage for dems on each issue. It doesn't, and it's not even close.
ikestoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 01:26 AM   #54
ikestoys
banned
 
ikestoys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: and don't vote trump/sanders
Posts: 94,444
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
The funny thing is none of the republicans except RP would actually try to repeal it when they get into office. The health insurance industry is poring way too much money into their campaigns, and by that time people will actually start to get some of the benefits. My uncle is a 55-year-old general contractor who has gotten absolutely ****ed by private insurance. Is Mitt Romney really going to yank the rug out from under him like that?

It's just more pandering to their base then do the exact opposite when they get into office, just like the small govt Bush admin and 2000-2006 congress. (Or Obama on a lot of stuff.)
Suzzer is learning the game, and this is pretty freaking obvious imo. I think I've come around to the thinking that the old/current health care system (not the free market) is probably worse than obamacare.
ikestoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 01:27 AM   #55
General Tsao
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
General Tsao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: trembling in fear of tomdemaine
Posts: 30,480
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

not sure why the popularity of something matters as to whether or not it's a good policy.
General Tsao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 01:31 AM   #56
suzzer99
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 80,775
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Well ultimately it does because we live in a democracy. But I agree that crowds can be very fickle and misinformed, and basing every policy decision on popular sentiment of the moment is guaranteed disaster.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 01:33 AM   #57
suzzer99
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 80,775
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

If there was no Medicare and Obama was just now trying to implement it, FoxNews et al would have seniors scared out of their wits about Death Panels, rationing, Soviet Gulag hospitals, and god knows what.

BUT, now that seniors have their Medicare, ask them if they'd rather replace it with nothing.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 01:34 AM   #58
General Tsao
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
General Tsao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: trembling in fear of tomdemaine
Posts: 30,480
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

well that's a stupid comparison, wouldn't you say, suzzer?
General Tsao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 01:36 AM   #59
ikestoys
banned
 
ikestoys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: and don't vote trump/sanders
Posts: 94,444
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
If there was no Medicare and Obama was just now trying to implement it, FoxNews et al would have seniors scared out of their wits about Death Panels, rationing, Soviet Gulag hospitals, and god knows what.
Before getting all offended over this, let's go over social security reform eh? Dems do this just as much as republicans when it comes to medicare/ss/health care.
ikestoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 01:45 AM   #60
suzzer99
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 80,775
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Once again I have no idea what you're trying to say.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 01:47 AM   #61
ikestoys
banned
 
ikestoys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: and don't vote trump/sanders
Posts: 94,444
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Once again I have no idea what you're trying to say.
That your offense at fearmongering is very one sided.

ss/medicare desperately need reform, but whenever one side proposing something, the other side immediately goes into why do you want grandma to die mode.
ikestoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 01:48 AM   #62
suzzer99
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 80,775
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Tsao View Post
well that's a stupid comparison, wouldn't you say, suzzer?
Yeah since I'm saying that FoxNews has scared people to irrational levels about Obamacare, just like they would about Medicare if someone tried to implement it in this age of right wing media and extreme partisanship. Furthermore I fully believe that once people see Obamacare in action and 40 million people or w/e see how the other half (and seniors and the poor and Mass and HI) is living with real health insurance, they'll never want to lose it - just like seniors are right now with Medicare.

I mean what the hell kind of analogy is that? I must be on the crazy sauce again.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 01:49 AM   #63
suzzer99
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 80,775
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ikestoys View Post
That your offense at fearmongering is very one sided.

ss/medicare desperately need reform, but whenever one side proposing something, the other side immediately goes into why do you want grandma to die mode.
Obama has proposed putting SS reform on the table as much as republicans lately. They don't give a **** about SS reform if it means letting the Bush tax cuts expire on the rich. Again, why was there no concern for how they were going to pay for that a mere couple months ago? Why all of a sudden with the payroll tax do we now care about only extending temporary taxe cuts when we have commensurate spending reforms?

From my understanding SS isn't even the hard one to fix.

The democrats are right to fearmonger about the Ryan proposal for Medicare. That thing is a gigantic **** you to the middle class.
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 01:52 AM   #64
General Tsao
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
General Tsao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: trembling in fear of tomdemaine
Posts: 30,480
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Yeah since I'm saying that FoxNews has scared people to irrational levels about Obamacare, just like they would about Medicare if someone tried to implement it in this age of right wing media and extreme partisanship. Furthermore I fully believe that once people see Obamacare in action and 40 million people or w/e see how the other half (and seniors and the poor and Mass and HI) is living with real health insurance, they'll never want to lose it - just like seniors are right now with Medicare.

I mean what the hell kind of analogy is that? I must be on the crazy sauce again.

umm the big difference is that medicare victims have contributed to that system their entire working lives - of course they wouldn't give it up. medicare victims have been forced by your gun to be dependent on the government.

same with social security victims.

whereas no one is yet dependent and a victim of Obamacare in this country.

as someone who is now being forced by you, suzzler, to pay in to social security and medicare, i'd be pretty angry if you took it away from me after i contributed to it for 60 years, but i'd much prefer it if you'd let me save and invest the money i worked for as i see fit. many people my age don't like the idea of social security.
General Tsao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 02:04 AM   #65
dinopoker
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
dinopoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Must...bet...more!
Posts: 7,288
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Ikes (or anyone), what parts of Obamacare do YOU disagree with, and why?

Is there anything about it that you think is good?

If no, then how would YOU solve the health care situation in the USA?
dinopoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 02:07 AM   #66
ikestoys
banned
 
ikestoys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: and don't vote trump/sanders
Posts: 94,444
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinopoker View Post
Ikes, what parts of Obamacare do YOU disagree with, and why?
Well, considering I'm a pretty radical free-marketer, just about all of it, because it's really anti-free market.

Now, since that will never happen and we're nowhere close to a free market, that gets me into a bunch of weird spots.
ikestoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 02:09 AM   #67
PoBoy321
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
PoBoy321's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA
Posts: 9,886
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinopoker View Post
Ikes (or anyone), what parts of Obamacare do YOU disagree with, and why?

Is there anything about it that you think is good?

If no, then how would YOU solve the health care situation in the USA?
Like most people who oppose health care reform, I'm going to jump out on a limb and say that he hates Obamacare, but loves the idea that children can stay on their parents' plans until they're 26, that health insurance companies actually have to spend money on health care, and that insurance companies can't deny chemotherapy to people because they didn't mention that they got pimples when they were in high school.

But then again, ikes gonna ikes.
PoBoy321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 02:18 AM   #68
General Tsao
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
General Tsao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: trembling in fear of tomdemaine
Posts: 30,480
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinopoker View Post
anyone, what parts of Obamacare do YOU disagree with, and why?

Is there anything about it that you think is good?

If no, then how would YOU solve the health care situation in the USA?
I just read through the provisions on wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obamaca..._of_provisions

Unless that page is wrong, no, not one single good thing in it.

Quote:
Guaranteed issue and partial community rating will require insurers to offer the same premium to all applicants of the same age and geographical location without regard to most pre-existing conditions (excluding tobacco use).[15]
pre-existing conditions should absolutely be considered for insurance costs (unless the insurance co doesn't want to). this isn't insurance anymore.

Quote:
A shared responsibility requirement, commonly called an individual mandate,[16] requires that nearly all persons not covered by Medicaid, Medicare, or other public insurance programs purchase an approved private insurance policy or pay a penalty, unless the applicable individual is a member of a recognized religious sect, exempted by the Internal Revenue Service, or waived in cases of financial hardship.[17]
i don't believe in forcing people to buy stuff

Quote:
Medicaid eligibility is expanded to include all individuals and families with incomes up to 133% of the poverty level along with a simplified CHIP enrollment process
i think wealth redistribution is theft

Quote:
Health insurance exchanges will commence operation in each state, offering a marketplace where individuals and small businesses can compare policies and premiums, and buy insurance (with a government subsidy if eligible).
tbh i don't understand this one but it has the word subsidy in it so it's bad.

Quote:
Minimum standards for health insurance policies are to be established and annual and lifetime coverage caps will be prohibited.
there should be no law for minimum standards. if a poor person can only afford a really bad insurance policy, give them that option plz.

etc

So the question "how would YOU fix it", well, first, we gotta define the problem. healthcare isn't one problem, it's actually THREE problems.

so first define the problem, then FIX the problem. how would i fix it?

Spoiler:
General Tsao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 02:20 AM   #69
ikestoys
banned
 
ikestoys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: and don't vote trump/sanders
Posts: 94,444
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoBoy321 View Post
Like most people who oppose health care reform, I'm going to jump out on a limb and say that he hates Obamacare, but loves the idea that children can stay on their parents' plans until they're 26, that health insurance companies actually have to spend money on health care, and that insurance companies can't deny chemotherapy to people because they didn't mention that they got pimples when they were in high school.

But then again, ikes gonna ikes.
C- effort imo, although I will admit it's pretty awesome to you have all you healthy ****ers subsidizing my wife's health insurance in 2014. SUCKAS!
ikestoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 02:20 AM   #70
suzzer99
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
suzzer99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on top of the bell curve
Posts: 80,775
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Taso do you realize that people who have corporate or govt insurance don't get screened for pre-existing conditions as it is?
suzzer99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 02:23 AM   #71
PoBoy321
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
PoBoy321's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA
Posts: 9,886
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Tsao View Post
tbh i don't understand this one but it has the word subsidy in it so it's bad.
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahah

This helps me understand conservative positions so much. "I don't understand it so it must be bad."
PoBoy321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 02:23 AM   #72
General Tsao
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
General Tsao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: trembling in fear of tomdemaine
Posts: 30,480
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

so what is the problem? i think there's a few issues

1) competition among insurance co's

let all insurance co's compete regardless of state borders, don't force anyone to buy any insurance ever.

2) MDs have a monopoly
let others have medical practices. one big reason healthcare costs are so high is because MDs run unnecessary tests for revenue purposes. there needs to be competition otherwise costs go up and quality goes down. instead, the government has made it a law that only MDs can prescribe medications, only MDs can do blahblahblah.

guess what, when I have a runny nose and a cough I really don't need someone with 8 years of medical training to tell me to drink fluids and guzzle the nyquil.

need to get rid of MANDATORY licensing in medicine, lawyering, investigating, etc.

stop destroying wealth by creating bombs to kill people in the middle east, and then lower taxes so more people could donate to charities to help the people in need.

stop printing money increasing the costs of everything (healthcare included) while wages are slow to catch up

that's just off the top of my head guy i'll try to think of some more
General Tsao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 02:24 AM   #73
PoBoy321
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
PoBoy321's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Baltimore, MD, USA
Posts: 9,886
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ikestoys View Post
C- effort imo, although I will admit it's pretty awesome to you have all you healthy ****ers subsidizing my wife's health insurance in 2014. SUCKAS!
Oh, I would have assumed you would have hoped that the insurance companies would have left your wife to die. Free ponies, imo.
PoBoy321 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 02:24 AM   #74
ikestoys
banned
 
ikestoys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: and don't vote trump/sanders
Posts: 94,444
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Really the biggest problem in health care right now are MDs. There's no legitimate reason for every basic cost of going to the doctor to have gone up so much. This has happened because MDs have carved out a nice monopoly by using the government.

There's simply no reason you have to go to advanced schooling for 8 years and apprentice for another 3 in order to diagnose someone with a cold. None, zero, nada.
ikestoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2011, 02:26 AM   #75
General Tsao
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
General Tsao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: trembling in fear of tomdemaine
Posts: 30,480
Re: Who Will Be the 2012 Republican Presidential Nominee?

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Taso do you realize that people who have corporate or govt insurance don't get screened for pre-existing conditions as it is?
ya i have "corporate insurance". but my understanding is that if someone has AIDS and they apply for Blue Cross etc, Blue Cross with Obamacare cannot turn them down or charge them more due to the AIDS. Correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoBoy321 View Post
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahah

This helps me understand conservative positions so much. "I don't understand it so it must be bad."
that was a joke fella and i'm one of the most liberal posters in this forum
General Tsao is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online