The GOP war on voting - Page 9 - Politics and Economics

Nichlemn · 10-07-2011, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinopoker

But fraudulent voting is already illegal, that's the point you seem to be missing.

Like by your logic there's nothing to prevent an organized scheme to kidnap the loved ones of millions of voters and force them to vote a specific way. Except there is, because kidnapping is already a felony. So is voter fraud.

So is terrorism (and for that matter, underage drinking).

CharlieDontSurf · 10-08-2011, 01:29 AM

Make the election day on a Monday - have it be a national holiday.
Everyone who registered gets mailed a ballot or you can cast your ballot in any Starbucks.

ez game

Montecore · 10-08-2011, 02:21 AM

Am I allowed to agree that intentional Republican voter disenfranchising is horrific and anti-American while at the same time thinking that having to show a government issued ID to vote is a completely reasonable thing to require?

As an aside, are there any hard statistics out there about how many voting age eligible Americans there are, and how many individuals of voting age have government issued IDs? As mentioned earlier in the thread (and by my militant Democratic friends), I realize it can be hard for 96 year olds with no birth certificate to get a government ID, but stating that there is a broad swath of the population that is incapable of getting a DL seems like infantilization to me.

Chips Ahoy · 10-08-2011, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montecore

As an aside, are there any hard statistics out there about how many voting age eligible Americans there are, and how many individuals of voting age have government issued IDs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Times Editorial

A survey by the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law found that 11 percent of citizens, 21 million people, do not have a current photo ID. That fraction increases to 15 percent of low-income voting-age citizens, 18 percent of young eligible voters and 25 percent of black eligible voters.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/opinion/27wed1.html

Low Key · 10-08-2011, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morris King

I'm with you except for this one -- we can all see the disastrous effects of online voting as witnessed by Yao Ming's selection to the NBA all-star team. I mean, did he even play a game last season? And that was just an all-star game, just think of the potential for unalloyed evil you'd be opening up by allowing people to vote for POTUS online.

All jokes aside, I think it wouldn't be too hard to implement a secure online voting process with multiple forms of verification.

13ball · 10-08-2011, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grizy

The military is so overwhelmingly Republican Democrats have consistently fell on whichever side that tended to disenfranchise absentee ballots for a long time.

Anything from not counting their votes at all for local elections if they are stationed overseas (arguing they aren't current local residents essentially), mailing ballots out at last possible moment (even illegally late), earlier deadlines and just about everything else they can come up with to count fewer military votes.

They do this so often it's not even news anymore.

Yes, those moves by Democrats are douchey and unAmerican. Just like the Republican moves, right?

grizy · 10-08-2011, 09:15 AM

Douchey fosho, unAmerican, I am not so sure.

Montecore · 10-08-2011, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chips Ahoy

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/27/opinion/27wed1.html

CA --

Thanks for the link.

I guess I don't have much sympathy for the younger part of our population that doesn't have a photo ID. Having a DL/state ID seems to me to be a pretty important part of being a citizen, and taking a few hours out of one day every 4 years to get an ID doesn't seem to be too much to ask. Independent of the voting issue, it's pretty hard for me to understand how that many people get by without a photo ID . . . I guess I should have taken more social justice/sociology classes in college.

The not accepting student ID thing also doesn't seem to be a big deal to me; unless things have changed since I was in school, they're essentially just a piece of cardboard with a photo, a class year, and college name. Can't students going to school out of state just either register to vote in the county/state in which they're going to school or use an absentee ballot from their state of residence? That's what most of the kids I went to school with did, and I never heard of anyone having a problem. Arguing that this rule disenfranchises college students is a lot tougher sell to me than arguing that it disenfranchises poor people.

In any case, the answer to me seems to make it easier for poor people to get photo ID, not infantilize them by excusing them from a societal requirement because of liberal guilt.

[Phill] · 10-08-2011, 03:08 PM

Having ID isnt a societal requirement.

Montecore · 10-08-2011, 03:42 PM

Phill,

It's not? It's necessary for traveling by air, buying controlled substances, cashing checks, etc . . . Are you just arguing that it's not legally required? Why shouldn't it be?

Chips Ahoy · 10-08-2011, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montecore

Phill,

It's not? It's necessary for traveling by air, buying controlled substances, cashing checks, etc . . . Are you just arguing that it's not legally required? Why shouldn't it be?

Do you support obamacare?

I ask because all the things you mention are voluntary. Somebody might choose to do them, or not. Choosing not to doesn't make you a non-citizen.

You said having ID is an important part of being a citizen. Actually, it's an important part of how you choose to live but has nothing to do with being a citizen.

will1530 · 10-08-2011, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montecore

Phill,

It's not? It's necessary for traveling by air, buying controlled substances, cashing checks, etc . . . Are you just arguing that it's not legally required? Why shouldn't it be?

don't fly, don't buy controlled substances, and do you seriously cash checks?? I haven't actually cashed a check in over a decade, I've deposited a few, but that doesn't require ID.

ID's are not legally required, attempting to require an ID is a major government overreach, and would hopefully be ruled unconstitutional.

[Phill] · 10-08-2011, 04:01 PM

Exactly. A requirement to do voluntary things is by its definition not a "societal requirement".

pvn · 10-08-2011, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low Key

All jokes aside, I think it wouldn't be too hard to implement a secure online voting process with multiple forms of verification.

Actually it would be incredibly hard if you want to maintain things like secret ballots. It's not like building a banking/ATM system.

It's hard enough to make electronic voting machines robust when you've got control of the physical machine and polling location. Distributing the process over the internet makes the problem several orders of magnitude harder.

Montecore · 10-08-2011, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chips Ahoy

Do you support obamacare?

I ask because all the things you mention are voluntary. Somebody might choose to do them, or not. Choosing not to doesn't make you a non-citizen.

You said having ID is an important part of being a citizen. Actually, it's an important part of how you choose to live but has nothing to do with being a citizen.

Alright, how does one demonstrate citizenship absent of a government ID? Carry around their birth certificate and SS card? Is being able to demonstrate citizenship not important/necessary iyo?