The GOP war on voting - Page 26 - Politics and Economics

So in summation: republicans itt demand proof that their solution to the problem of voter fraud would disenfranchasise voters, while feeling zero compulsion to prove that the problem they purport to solve even exists.

You forgot the step where middle class Republicans ITT assume that because they have a driver's license, then everyone has an acceptable state ID, and they assert that if you think that taking several hours to get an ID is a hassle, then you don't have the right to vote.

03-12-2012 , 10:45 AM

#627

Low Key

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 33,327

Quote:

The
population of elderly persons 65 and older without a drivers license or a state photo ID
totals 177,399, and of these 70 percent are women.

Mind, this is just for Wisconsin, total pop from the 2000 census = 5.3MM (study was done in 2005).

Quote:

An estimated 98,247 Wisconsin residents ages 35 through 64 also do not
have either a drivers license or a photo ID

Quote:

Minorities and poor populations are the most likely to have drivers license problems. Less than
half (47 percent) of Milwaukee County African American adults and 43 percent of Hispanic
adults have a valid drivers license compared to 85 percent of white adults in the Balance of State
(BOS, i.e., outside Milwaukee County). The situation for young adults ages 18-24 is even worse
-- with only 26 percent of African Americans and 34 percent of Hispanics in Milwaukee County
with a valid license compared to 71 percent of young white adults in the Balance of State.

liberal university of wisconsin though

03-12-2012 , 12:49 PM

#628

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

People without driver's licenses only count as, like, what, three fifths of a person or so?

03-12-2012 , 01:07 PM

#629

bernie

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 18,884

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

People without driver's licenses only count as, like, what, three fifths of a person or so?

With the right legislation they'll be able to drop that to only 1/2 a person.

People w/o driver's licenses shouldn't be allowed to walk on any street since they aren't paying the gas tax that helps go towards fixing pot holes. Freeloaders...

b

03-12-2012 , 01:21 PM

#630

the steam

banned

Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 1,521

Wookie and Suzzer are correct, this would disproportionally exclude black voters. I don't know what the govt says the percentage of blacks over 18 that don't have ID is but as someone who's been in the bar business for almost 20 years I would wager the real number is 30-40%.

Also I'm a youth wrestling coach(you have to be under 12 to participate)and minority children seem much more likely than white kids to not have(or be able to come up with) a birth certificate.

The solution isn't to say "requiring ID is racist so don't ask for it." This should be addressed by the minority community. Make them aware that it is problem and encourage them to get an ID so they can open a bank account, get married, apply for a mortgage etc etc. People go door to door to register voters, how about going door to door with information on where the closest DMV is and the procedure for getting an ID?

03-12-2012 , 01:33 PM

#631

bernie

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 18,884

Quote:

Originally Posted by the steam

The solution isn't to say "requiring ID is racist so don't ask for it." This should be addressed by the minority community. Make them aware that it is problem and encourage them to get an ID so they can open a bank account, get married, apply for a mortgage etc etc. People go door to door to register voters, how about going door to door with information on where the closest DMV is and the procedure for getting an ID?

Something tells me the minority community is well aware of their problems which extend beyond simply opening up a bank account, etc...

But we all know they're employed and paid at the same rates and have the same access to resources, so yeah, what's their problem?

b

03-12-2012 , 01:46 PM

#632

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by the steam

OK, you've proposed a reasonable solution, but it's still a solution in search of a problem, and even with, say, some government funding for community organizing groups that will help people get ID, it still seems likely that the number of votes that would be excluded due to people missing even a single election from not having ID in time is large compared to the number of ineligible votes that would be stopped by an ID law.

03-12-2012 , 01:53 PM

#633

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Oh, well lookie at what just popped up on my news feed:

Quote:

WASHINGTON — The Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division on Monday blocked Texas from enforcing a new law requiring voters to present photo identification, contending that the rule would disproportionately suppress turnout among eligible Hispanic voters.

Quote:

The analysis was complicated because Texas submitted two different sets of data that had conflicting numbers without taking a position on which was more accurate. The September numbers said that 603,892 registered voters lacked a driver’s license or state-issued identification card, while the January data said that 795,955 registered voters did not have such identification.

But the Justice Department concluded that there was a statistically significant disparity against Hispanics under either data set.

Specifically, under the September data, 4.3 percent of non-Hispanic voters lacked such identification, while 6.3 percent of Hispanic voters did — meaning that Hispanics were 46.5 percent more likely to be affected by the rules change.

Under the January data, 4.9 percent of non-Hispanic voters lacked the identification, as compared with 10.8 percent of Hispanic voters — meaning that Hispanics were more than twice as likely to be affected. By that count, Hispanics would account for 38.2 percent of the registered voters who lacked such identification.

The state’s numbers did not break out African-American voters from other non-Hispanics, raising the possibility that the gap between Hispanic and non-Hispanic whites might be larger. The state also did not supply numbers for other forms of identification deemed acceptable by the new law.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/13/us...l?pagewanted=2

03-12-2012 , 03:40 PM

#634

einbert

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 14,911

Good! So why isn't this happening more often? Surely the same kind of argument could be applied to most of these states that are passing these insane laws intended to disenfranchise the poor and minorities.

03-12-2012 , 03:46 PM

#635

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

I guess the Voting Rights Act (signed by LBJ) only places the burden of proving that voting restrictions don't overly burden minorities on states with a history of attempting to disenfranchise minorities. Texas and South Carolina, which also had an ID law suspended by the DOJ under this law, fall under that umbrella. Of the 8 states that have passed ID laws, Alabama, Kansas, Mississippi, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Wisconsin, though, I'm surprised that AL, MS, and TN haven't yet had their laws suspended, but a suspension may be on the way. WI and RI are unlikely to be subject to the same scrutiny. Not sure about KS. I guess a state judge suspended WI's law, so no DOJ intervention necessary there.

03-12-2012 , 03:57 PM

#636

rjoefish

Got Out the Vote

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31,086

Judge in WI went further today and ruled the law unconstitutional, changing the temporary restraint to permanent.

ETA: It was a separate judge, not the one that initially enjoined it.

03-12-2012 , 04:03 PM

#637

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Yeah, I mean, if these laws get challenged at the federal level, it seems hard for them to pass the strict scrutiny standard.

03-12-2012 , 05:04 PM

#638

Namath12

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 55,849

How do the 2+2 libertarians feel about this? I would think these types of laws would be abhorrent to libertarians.

03-12-2012 , 05:06 PM

#639

Namath12

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 55,849

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

FL too. I was asked for photo ID when I voted in the primary in January, and also in 2008.

ETA: Also, since you obviously can't check the photo ID of someone who is voting via absentee ballot, would a way around this law be simply to vote absentee every election? I assume that there is a subset of people (ie military, shut ins, too lazy to get off couch and go to polling place, too busy, etc) who vote absentee anyway who would also be affected by this law.

03-12-2012 , 05:31 PM

#640

Case Closed

self-banned

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 19,112

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynton

I have no idea whether internet voting could be secure enough to be viable. That's an empirical question to which I'd defer to experts.

But my essential point is that a grand compromise, of some sort, seems theoretically possible (trading voter-fraud rules for greater-access rules, and better counting methodologies), if anyone was actually interested in getting something done by way of a compromise.

What if voting was no longer private? Like you could vote online and everyone's vote could be viewed by the public.

03-12-2012 , 05:37 PM

#641

rjoefish

Got Out the Vote

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31,086

That's a bad idea all around IMO.

03-12-2012 , 10:45 PM

#642

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Case Closed

What if voting was no longer private? Like you could vote online and everyone's vote could be viewed by the public.

would make vote buying a lot easier

03-12-2012 , 11:53 PM

#643

Low Key

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 33,327

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashington

How do the 2+2 libertarians feel about this? I would think these types of laws would be abhorrent to libertarians.

These kinds of laws make me sick to my ass...

Though maybe that's the two day old Indian food.

03-13-2012 , 12:23 PM

#644

Namath12

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 55,849

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

would make vote buying a lot easier

Harassment too. I don't like that idea.

03-13-2012 , 03:55 PM

#645

Inso0

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 8,707

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

That's a bad idea all around IMO.

So you oppose union Card Check and instead favor secret ballot?

I'd never have guessed.

03-13-2012 , 04:30 PM

#646

rjoefish

Got Out the Vote

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31,086

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inso0

So you oppose union Card Check and instead favor secret ballot?

I'd never have guessed.

If they were somehow they same thing you might have a point here. LDO I support card check.

03-13-2012 , 05:35 PM

#647

Boa Hancock

adept

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 737

Obama justice department decides they don't care about voter fraud. Another anti-democratic decision by the Obama administration.

Aren't we lucky to have these guys running the world?

03-13-2012 , 06:10 PM

#648

goofyballer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 70,719

LOL boa

03-13-2012 , 06:25 PM

#649

suzzer99

Save the Cheerleader, Save the World

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 99,984

Boa off his meds

03-13-2012 , 06:25 PM

#650

rjoefish

Got Out the Vote

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31,086

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boa Hancock

Obama justice department decides they care about disenfranchising massive amounts of minorities. Another democratic decision by the Obama administration.

Aren't we lucky to have these guys running the world?

FYP

Page 26 of 164

First

6 16 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 36 46 76 126

Last

...

Page 26 of 164

First

6 16 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 36 46 76 126

Last