Wait wut.

Murder doesn't really kill anyone, because one murder is only like, one 300 millionth of me.

Why do solutions even need problems? GOP has thoroughly debunked science, maybe they move on to basic logic next.

Here are the cliffnotes:

stealing votes is bad
its still stealing votes if you stop eligible voters from voting

Literally the only debate is what is stopping eligible voters from voting and that seems to have been solved way back on page one.

Which logically fallacious argument are you trying to make here? I just want to know exactly which of the possible ways you could be wrong before explaining how you're wrong.

The argument you were responding to wasn't that YOU get disenfranchised.

so who was disenfranchised, say, in the case of the sheriff abusing mail in ballots?

An illegal vote for 'A' cancels out a legal vote for 'B'. It is 1 for 1.

Interesting take on this issue today: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...-deroy-murdock

No, the main argument is that implementing voter ID laws are allowing the GOP to steal elections because the vast majority of the people being disenfranchised tend to swing Democrat.


Except the same Republican governments that are passing the ID laws are also making it HARDER to get the ID, not easier. How do you explain that?

Well not really because your first sentence is incorrect. As was pointed out in the OP, an extensive voter fraud investigation was carried out (by the Bush DOJ as it happens) and basically found that the problem is non-existent.

This report on the 2000 election is also pretty disturbing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClTxa...ure=plpp_video

So whose vote gets cancelled? Mine? Yours? Or does it just dilute our collective voting power?

If there's no body there's no murder, right?

Or even better, when people say "seatbelts save 20,000 lives per year" or whatever the number is, that's really bogus because you can't POINT TO WHO GOT SAVED. it's REALLY only 20,000/300,000,000 of my life.

So because no one was disenfranchised, that means people were definitely disenfranchised. I like where thus is going, and the application to other areas of law is mind-boggling.

Realize that I would agree someone was disenfranchised if, say, someone else fraudulently voted in their place and then they were later refused a provisional ballot of any sort until the confusion was cleared up.

Have elections already been stolen or is this your premise? How do you know the vast majority of people being disenfranchised tend to swing Democrat? Most seniors I know tend to vote Republican. Aren't seniors being disenfranchised at a higher rate than the general populace?

I'm not in favor of laws that make it harder to get ID's. If Republican legislators are making it harder to get ID's I would explain it by saying it is typical governmental BS engaged in by both parties to expand their power.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...a-study-finds/

http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=691

In a two way race if candidate 'A' wins by 300 votes and it is determined that there were 500 illegal votes cast for candidate 'A' then everyone who voted for candidate 'B' has been disenfranchised.

The problems you cited there are best served by auditing the voter registration records, though, and they may not at all be solved by an ID law. In the case of felons, felons can get perfectly legal IDs, and if their name is on the voter registration rolls, then they can show up a precinct, show their ID, and vote illegally (often times out of cluelessness, not knowing they weren't allowed to vote). Illegal immigrants can get driver's licenses in many states, too. There are plenty of examples of clueless legal immigrants trying to register to vote without realizing they can't until they become citizens, and then the hammer of the law gets brought down on them, but again, ID doesn't solve that problem.

And again, these cases are happening on a very slight scale. 500 illegal votes is a gross mischaracterization of the frequency of disenfranchised felons or non-citizen immigrants voting.

Can someone count the # of times itt that proponents of voter ID laws have brought up an example of voter fraud that would not prevented by voter ID laws?

Just a wild guess, but 600 posts divided by 2 equals 300. So, roughly 300.

They can't because it doesn't happen often if at all. All the voter fraud occurs in the electronic machines or if corrupt people are running the polls/fixing the numbers. Its not like Julio went to the voting booth 47 times.

http://dailycaller.com/2011/07/29/mi...f-voter-fraud/

Linking to people getting caught at voter fraud, esp when its a guy casting 10 ballots, seems a really really poor argument in favour of disenfranchising millions of eligible voters via a voting ID law.

The guy was a leader in the NAACP, you think that is the first time he cast 10 ballots?

Do you think he is the only one who has thought of this?

Do you realize that there are a whole lot of dead, fictcous or nonvoting people on the voter rolls? That Acorn has been caught registering fictcous people. You claim there is no fraud the system is perfect. Yet when someone is caught and convicted using DNA then you claim that well it's not a good argument. but the reality is that it is amazing they could catch anyone given the current voting system.

But what proof do you have anyone could not comply? If someone can make it to the polls fill out a ballot they can comply with the act.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123327839569631609.html Indiana act has been in place for like 4 years no showing of disenfranchized voters.

Quoting for shock value.

Man, this article is hilarious for a number of reasons.

1. Ten votes = "massive voter fraud scheme."
2. A quote:

Bwahahahahahhaha.

3. Obligatory indignation at alleged liberal conspiracy in the media: "In a story ignored by the national media..."

4. And finally, as per usual when a bob or a mike posts an example of vote fraud that would justify ID at polling places: "a Tunica County, Miss., jury convicted NAACP official Lessadolla Sowers on 10 counts of fraudulently casting absentee ballots."

Keep ****in' that chicken, bob.

As opposed to the hystrical whining on the left. Who could not even show one person who would not be able to not comply with Indiana's act
(dispite the claim of millions would be disenfranchised) and who failed to even convince the liberal justice Stevens that the act would disenfrancise anyone.

To me it's an easy call, a simple requirment which everyone can comply with that would solve one case is a good thing.

Done with this thread unless you have a concrete case showing numerous people being disenfranchised by a voter id law.

Well sure, the 2000 election was stolen for GWB by Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris when they disenfranchised thousands of eligible voters, mostly black, by 'mistakenly' listing them as ex-felons.

Watch and learn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClTxaY8Uy5U

Because those people who are BOTH seniors AND who tend to not have ID are those that are poorer and/or members of visible minorities, which tend to vote Dem.

Yes so if you also favor IDs to vote, then surely someone like yourself would do the process in reverse, wouldn't you say? First make it really, really easy to get an ID and THEN pass laws requiring them for voting. Why is the GOP doing it the opposite way if not to suppress opposition votes?

And yet how many actual cases of voter fraud have been prosecuted? Out of all the elections held every year and all the millions of people who vote, and not to mention the extreme vitriol between the parties, there is only a small handful of actual cases. Why is that? If it was as rampant as all these Reps suggest then there should be thousands of cases. But there isn't.

The bottom line is that it's a concerted effort to suppress the vote in order to steal elections. There's simply no other way to look at it.

So in summation: republicans itt demand proof that their solution to the problem of voter fraud would disenfranchasise voters, while feeling zero compulsion to prove that the problem they purport to solve even exists.