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Old 07-07-2017, 03:29 PM   #3176
ecriture d'adulte
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Re: The GOP war on voting

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Originally Posted by cuserounder View Post
I'm aware of what they want, I disagree about how up front they are... but neither is the point. The point is that Democrats are fighting that but not trying to gain anything. The current battle lines leave the Democrats defending the status quo but not pushing for improvements.
Well, your "point" is just wrong.


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...-gaining-steam

Quote:
According to the Brennan Center for Justice, a civil rights advocacy group in favor of the system, 28 states and the District of Columbia have considered implementing automatic registration in 2016 but are stalled. President Barack Obama has endorsed the scheme, saying it should be the “new norm across America.” Hillary Clinton agrees. In 2015, Sen. Bernie Sanders proposed federal legislation to mandate automatic registration. A similar measure in the House of Representatives now has 86 co-sponsors.
Dems are pushing for improvements beyond status quo preservation at the state and federal level, in the legislative and executive branches etc. Your ignorance of the battle lines doesn't actually change them.

Last edited by ecriture d'adulte; 07-07-2017 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 07-07-2017, 03:51 PM   #3177
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Re: The GOP war on voting

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Originally Posted by ecriture d'adulte View Post
Well, your "point" is just wrong.


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...-gaining-steam



Dems are pushing for improvements beyond status quo preservation at the state and federal level, in the legislative and executive branches etc. Your ignorance of the battle lines doesn't actually change them.
Thanks for the link. It's good to see that there is more effort there than I realized.

I still think my point is valid for three reasons. First, they aren't tying this issue to the national debate on Voter ID. They must connect them to avoid being freerolled. Secondly, that didn't say much about making voting easier (expanding voting by mail, for example). Third, it doesn't do us much good to get this done in places like California, Vermont and Oregon... It needs to be a federal issue. WV is good though! But we need this in places with Republican legislatures and governors, and especially in swing states.
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Old 07-07-2017, 07:45 PM   #3178
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Re: The GOP war on voting

Dems are doing almost exactly what you told them to do. If they are inept, i have a tough time seeing how you aren't. Its not lack they like "strategic thinkers" that can't figure out stuff that is super important and super obvious.

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Old 07-07-2017, 09:28 PM   #3179
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Re: The GOP war on voting

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Originally Posted by ecriture d'adulte View Post
Dems are doing almost exactly what you told them to do. If they are inept, i have a tough time seeing how you aren't. Its not lack they like "strategic thinkers" that can't figure out stuff that is super important and super obvious.
I don't think they're connecting these issues to voter ID well at all, I don't think they're pushing it properly at the federal level. Every argument seems to be about why voter ID is unnecessary, as opposed to including this stuff. Maybe it's going on and I'm the moron who's not noticing, but I haven't seen it.
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Old 07-07-2017, 11:53 PM   #3180
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Re: The GOP war on voting

Sources were provided?
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Old 07-08-2017, 02:21 AM   #3181
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Re: The GOP war on voting

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Originally Posted by cuserounder View Post
I don't think they're connecting these issues to voter ID well at all, I don't think they're pushing it properly at the federal level. Every argument seems to be about why voter ID is unnecessary, as opposed to including this stuff. Maybe it's going on and I'm the moron who's not noticing, but I haven't seen it.
Just talking out my ass a little, but this feels like common knowledge. ... most of the voting issues are handled by the state and that would be hard to change. Dems are super weak in these red st as tes. Blue states usually make it easy to vote. The Obama administration did what it could in fighting battles in court.
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Old 07-09-2017, 01:11 PM   #3182
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Re: The GOP war on voting

Given Trump's desire to hand over our elections' security to Russia, the very people trying to disrupt our elections, and the GOP's desire to prevent any and all minorities or poor people from voting, I think it's safe to say the modern GOP wants our elections to be as free and fair as those held in Mother Russia.
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Old 07-11-2017, 08:49 PM   #3183
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Re: The GOP war on voting

Mother Jones has an article up about what that DoJ letter to states was about. Bush Era DoJ lawyers have set up a organization that's been going around suing poor counties to make them purge their voter rolls. The poor counties don't have money so they end agreeing to consent decrees that make it easy to purge voters. The harshest, for instance, is the government has to send a letter out to everyone who didn't vote that year and are on the voter rolls and if they don't respond they get kicked off. They didn't have much luck as they tried to sue counties with more money to pay lawyers but I bet Sessions is going to run a group of lawyers out of the DoJ to take that practice national.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...s-the-country/
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Old 07-12-2017, 12:00 PM   #3184
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Re: The GOP war on voting

Trump Voter Fraud Commission Halts Data Collection Amid Torrent of Lawsuits and Complaints

Don't give up
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:31 PM   #3185
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Re: The GOP war on voting

I've recently considered that they never wanted the data in the first place and are just making a show of this **** to discourage people who dislike Trump, but are on the fence about registering to vote.
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:38 PM   #3186
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Re: The GOP war on voting

Thet wanted the data. The chance to disenfranchise millions by finding double registrations is an opportunity.
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Old 07-12-2017, 07:41 PM   #3187
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Re: The GOP war on voting

Don't unregister to vote people.

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Old 07-12-2017, 08:26 PM   #3188
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Re: The GOP war on voting

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Don't unregister to vote people.

Supposedly reporters found a lot of these people and they were planning on re-registering after the state sent their data. Basically they didn't want their data sent, not that they were deregistring permanently.
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Old 07-13-2017, 05:52 AM   #3189
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Re: The GOP war on voting

Left wing rag obviously but The Nation's cover story this week is about voter suppression and hacking:

https://www.thenation.com/article/am...r-suppression/

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It is now clear that Russian interference in the 2016 elections went far beyond hacking Democratic National Committee e-mails; it struck at the heart of America’s democratic process. “As of right now, we have evidence of election-related systems in 21 states that were tar-geted,” Jeanette Manfra, the chief cyber-security official at the Department of Homeland Security, testified at the Senate hearing.

Only two of those states have been publicly named: Illinois, where hackers stole 90,000 voter-registration records, including driver’s-license and Social Security numbers; and Arizona, where the voter-registration list was breached via a county-level infiltration. On June 13, Bloomberg reported that “Russian hackers hit systems in a total of 39 states.” And The Intercept, citing a leaked National Security Agency report, stated that “Russian military intelligence executed a cyberattack on at least one U.S. voting software supplier and sent spear-phishing emails to more than 100 local election officials just days before last November’s presidential election.”

“This was a well-planned, well-coordinated, multi-faceted attack on our election process and democ-racy,” said Bill Priestap, assistant director of the FBI’s counter-intelligence division, at the Senate hearing.

“Any doubt it was the Russians?” Senator King asked.

“No, sir,” Priestap answered.
Quote:
 Since the 2010 election, 22 states—nearly all of them controlled by Republicans—have passed new laws making it harder to vote, which culminated in the 2016 election being the first in more than 50 years without the full protections of the Voting Rights Act.

According to a new study by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 12 percent of the electorate in 2016—16 million Americans—encountered a problem voting, including long lines at the polls, difficulty registering, or faulty voting machines. And last year’s election was decided by just 80,000 votes in three states.
Nothing we haven't heard before but I suppose it does a good job summarizing most of the egregious stuff in a short space.

As always, Democrats are going to spend the next few years decrying and whining to mostly Republican controlled governments that tens of millions of people facing barriers to voting demonstrates how much the system is broken, and Republicans and the White Smirking Class on the internet will argue if only obliquely that actually it shows the system is working beautifully and just how they want it.
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Old 07-13-2017, 06:08 AM   #3190
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Re: The GOP war on voting

The solution by the way isn't this stuff, even if it's all good ideas:

Quote:
 Halderman says the solutions are obvious: Record all votes on paper, perform routine audits of ballots, and conduct regular threat assessments, as is done in many industries.
Yeah OK whatever, good luck getting menial technocratic solutions passed against aggressive forces which don't want to bother auditing the results when they win and that don't really address the core problem anyway.

Perhaps one lazy, KISS, "try this one weird trick" method the Democrats and the left might try to is to acknowledge we're just ****ing horrible salesmen at lots of things but that democracy and enfranchisement remain broadly popular and just simply become the party of voting rights. Everyone would hate the feeling of being disenfranchised. Skip all the boring debates about policy and social justice and stuff that is white noise or perhaps even offensive to people and just become the party whose main interest is in protecting access to votes. I mean the left still has a lot of resources, instead of dumping it into quixotic Congressional campaigns running centrists in red districts, maybe we can just give all that money to the League of Women's Voters and Rock the Vote. I kid, but only a little.

It's a bit of a long form project but you're essentially counting on the fact that if left to their own devices and if you can simply make sure people can vote and make it easy to vote, Democrats and the left will win simply because our policies actually appeal to more people. Perhaps we invest less time and money in telling that story and trying to convert people to our side, and more time simply making sure people can meaningfully act (e.g., vote) on the impulse they probably already have.

Last edited by DVaut1; 07-13-2017 at 06:25 AM.
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Old 07-13-2017, 06:17 AM   #3191
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Re: The GOP war on voting

I make the allusion to technocracy because I do think it's a peculiar reflex of some in the modern big tent left that the solutions are always sort of professorial, Voxian, straight from a poor reading of FiveThirtyEight.com, vague sort of hand-wavy bull**** that might come from a TED Talk, that like, oh, if only we smartened up and conducted real threat assessments like private industry does, we'd really ****ing nail this thing. It goes hand in hand with how much money we just spent trying to get every last Romney voter out from their country clubs to vote for Ossoff and they said, uhh nah, we'll go with the Trump/GOP again, but we're still on for golf on Sunday, right?

Winning The Future is importing Silicon Valley business models and making sure we have just enough white middle management and above voters to sign off and boom, DEMOCRACY PROTECTED, just watch the wins roll in.

Democrats love the idea of converting rich whites to our way of thinking, of implementing these sort of faux capitalist sounding solutions out of some bad anti-virus software marketing material ("Is your election running slow? Suffering from malware, viruses, and annoying pop-ups? Conduct regular threat assessments, as is done in many industries.")

So I say it yet again that I remain confident the converts are out there, that they actually need no convincing. Just make it ****ing easier for them to vote. That's it. Do literally only that. And tell the people we will give them government provided, single payer health care. Those two things. Talk about nothing else, fund nothing else.

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Old 07-13-2017, 06:04 PM   #3192
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Re: The GOP war on voting

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I've made this point in a few threads when this issue has come up, and maybe in here before, but at this point it is crystal clear that the Democrats are getting their asses kicked on the current battle lines on Voter ID/Voter Suppression.

Right now the GOP is arguing that we need Voter ID to make it harder to fraudulently vote. The Democrats are (correctly) arguing that it is a solution without a problem, and it's got horrible side effects of restricting poor people's right to vote - and disproportionately impacting minorities. Obviously this is the whole point for the GOP. So, if the GOP gains ground they get to disenfranchise people who likely vote Democrat, and possibly become a permanently dominant party despite holding a minority of the eligible voting population. If the Democrats gain ground they get to... keep things as they are.

THE DEMOCRATS ARE PERPETUALLY BEING FREEROLLED ON THIS ISSUE.

Being freerolled is bad enough, but being freerolled where the outcome if your opponent wins is absolutely catastrophic is horrible.

Democrats absolutely MUST shift the battle lines here to include automatic voter registration at the age of 18, online registration, vote by mail, securing our technological election infrastructure, etc. This gives them a possible win on the issue, and if both sides get what they publicly "want," (the GOP pretends to want voter ID but really they want to disenfranchise folks), the Democrats actually win... Which puts the GOP in a tough spot in terms of messaging and PR. The Democrats can offer to vote yes on any voter ID bill that includes the aforementioned things, and the GOP has to then admit that they're opposed to more people voting. That's a tough sell.

The fact that the Democrats keep arguing this without shifting the battle lines is just complete ineptitude IMO. Are there any strategic thinkers at the DNC, or in the Democratic caucus???
screw all that. dems need to find a way to disenfranchise repubs.
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Old 07-17-2017, 11:57 AM   #3193
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