Food Stamps Are Out of Control. - Page 8 - Politics and Economics

AngusThermopyle · 06-20-2012, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2/325Falcon

http://bostonherald.com/news/politic...roposed_budget

Cliffs: MA EBT cards can get cash at ATMs.

More Cliffs: Article does not state that the benefits on the card were Food Stamps. EBT cards are also used for Welfare payments.

suzzer99 · 06-20-2012, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

Old man yells at cloud.jpg

IIRC correctly you're the guy who even took a stab at justifying the most comically egregious union pension abuses. So not shocked you'd see nothing wrong with food stamp abuses.

Here's a litmus test: how do you feel about employees of the Buffalo school district getting plastic surgery covered as part of their benefits package?

Huehuecoyotl · 06-20-2012, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

Old man yells at cloud.jpg

Well the thing is, the people who are abusing the system are the people who don't care if food stamps are stamps or a debit card.

rjoefish · 06-20-2012, 02:01 PM

EBT cards are also used for things like unemployment which definitely can be used at ATMs.

suzzer99 · 06-20-2012, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

Well the thing is, the people who are abusing the system are the people who don't care if food stamps are stamps or a debit card.

There's another class of people who might go through a rough patch but wouldn't think of getting food stamps. But sign them up automatically and now they're in the system getting used to govt aid. I think the equation should be more like you get so desperate you seek out the govt aid yourself.

joeyDizzle · 06-20-2012, 02:06 PM

So, to summarize this thread: people with expensive houses and large savings confirmed in need of food stamps or somehow poor people would starve to death?

krmont22 · 06-20-2012, 02:13 PM

Has anyone actually starved to death in the USA in the past 4 years?

zikzak · 06-20-2012, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeyDizzle

So, to summarize this thread: people with expensive houses and large savings confirmed in need of food stamps or somehow poor people would starve to death?

Thread summary is that people are really mad about... something. They're not sure what it is, and when the actual percentages of abuse and associated dollar values are brought up they ignore it. They also ignore the distinction between food stamps and cash payments for the poor.

Data is irrelevant. People just know, deep down in their heart, that there is something they need to be furious about, because someone, somewhere, did a thing and somebody else wrote a deliberately inflammatory news story about it.

prana · 06-20-2012, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

I think food stamps were fine the way they were - harder to apply for and get, not actively promoted to pepple and advertised by stores, you had to use actual stamps instead of an EBT card that looks like a credit card, you could only use them at major grocery stores. If you're a healthy working age adult they should be temporary.

I'm on my phone now but when I was at home browsing I saw links claiming the cards reduced fraud. I didn't read them and wont be home for several hours but they should be easy to find.

FlyWf · 06-20-2012, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

IIRC correctly you're the guy who even took a stab at justifying the most comically egregious union pension abuses. So not shocked you'd see nothing wrong with food stamp abuses.

Here's a litmus test: how do you feel about employees of the Buffalo school district getting plastic surgery covered as part of their benefits package?

I don't care what sort of health insurance the Buffalo school district negotiates as part of the compensation with their employees. Getting angry about that also seems weird. And also makes you seem like you don't know how health insurance plans work. What does "covered" mean in this context, anyway? Forward the chain email to the LC thread plz.

I don't even know what abuses you are angry about. Getting to use a card instead of stamps probably saves the government a ****load of money. Getting to buy "unhealthy" food is whatever.

Actual fraud is a crime and should be stopped, obviously, but mostly this thread seems like a bunch of people angry at the poors for mooching instead of starving with dignity.

edit: zikzak slow ponied me pretty good.

LirvA · 06-20-2012, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMcNasty

Then I'm not OK with it, there's no contradiction here.

Yes there is.

a. private citizen robs you to feed family - not ok
b. government steals from you to feed people - ok

It's a complete contradiction. Why is b ok but a is not? Why do you allow people in the government to be higher class and get away with **** regular citizens cannot?

bobman0330 · 06-20-2012, 02:18 PM

I hate to agree with Fly, but I'm having a hard time thinking of anything the government does that's less objectionable than helping poorish people buy food.

LirvA · 06-20-2012, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyWf

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1919

The (excellent) OOT thread krmont linked to reminded me of this.

And what I did was wrong, obviously.

edit: stealing from grocery stores I mean. The above is debatable.

Riverman · 06-20-2012, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zikzak

Thread summary is that people are really mad about... something. They're not sure what it is, and when the actual percentages of abuse and associated dollar values are brought up they ignore it. They also ignore the distinction between food stamps and cash payments for the poor.

Data is irrelevant. People just know, deep down in their heart, that there is something they need to be furious about, because someone, somewhere, did a thing and somebody else wrote a deliberately inflammatory news story about it.

I am mad that we're spending $70+ billion dollars a year, or about 1/3 of the annual cost of the Bush tax cuts, on a wildly inefficient program that is rife with fraud and other abuses. I am less mad, but still perturbed, by the administration of the program in such a manner that in some cases permits beneficiaries to buy super-unhealthy food that causes them to get fatter and more expensive to provide health care for.

suzzer99 · 06-20-2012, 02:20 PM

Yeah you know me, always taking those conservative chain emails at face value. When will I ever learn?

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...urgery/251533/

Quote:

In Buffalo, New York, the heart of the American Rust Belt, the public school system pays for its teachers to get plastic surgery. Hair removal. Miscrodermabrasian. Liposuction. If you can name the procedure, it's probably covered.

No, I am not exaggerating. And no, this article is not an excuse to make "Hot For Teacher" cracks. When I write that Buffalo's school system pays, I mean it literally. The perk is included as a self-insured rider in its teachers' contract. Therefore, the district has to cover the cost of each nip and tuck itself. There's no co-pay, so the school district ends up footing the entire bill. It estimates the current annual cost at $5.2 million, down from $9 million in 2009.

This in a city where the average teacher makes roughly $52,000 a year. The plastic surgery tab would pay salaries for 100 extra educators.

No abuses here or anywhere else. Ever. Move along.

So Fly is there any level of expansion of food stamps that you'd be opposed to? How about if we just gave them to everyone, do you think that would be a bad idea? Or do you think the level we're at right now is just about perfect?

It is possible to be all for the concept of food stamps, while holding the belief that special interests and political forces have come together to make them a little too easy to get atm.