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Old 05-19-2012, 02:55 AM   #121
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Re: Facebook Co-Founder Renounces Citizenship Prior to IPO; Haters are Perturbed

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Originally Posted by dinopoker View Post
China would not let a citizen renounce and move to Singapore. You have to live in a free country to be able to do that.
The United States is not a free country. Most everyone that works in government live the easy life, while everyone else are their slaves.

The real issue I see here is Savarin being a foriegn resident does not pay capital gains taxes on the U.S. stocks he owns. To anyone that reasonable and supports the people of the United States, why should any resident pay capital gains taxes on the U.S. stocks or gold they own. I am so proud of Savarin bringing this Marxist fraud to the forefront stocks are taxed twice.

Capital gains and dividend taxes should be ended!

For every share Savarin owns the government gets 35% of the profits as corporate income tax. The government is people my friend. While Bernie Sanders may disagree and say government is not people, thus banning the evil government from your life.

90% of all capital gains taxes is just inflation, proven so often in numerous studies.

Why is housing given a free break on capital gains taxes. The rich own homes! People should pay 30% capital gains taxes on the sale of their homes.

Shumler, or whatever this clown is should be banned from the USA as he does not pay tax on the homes he sells. Shulmler is also the same clown that wants to let foriegners buy homes in the USA and get citizenship or long visas.

I find it funny as heck if Savarin sells all his fb shares in the next 2 months and invests it in value stocks he will have more money that Zuckerberg in 5 years.

Last edited by steelhouse; 05-19-2012 at 03:01 AM.
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Old 05-19-2012, 10:10 AM   #122
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Re: Facebook Co-Founder Renounces Citizenship Prior to IPO; Haters are Perturbed

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Originally Posted by dinopoker View Post
China would not let a citizen renounce and move to Singapore. You have to live in a free country to be able to do that.
You would not have to renounce because China does not tax citizens abroad, only the US does. Nor does it treat it treat citizens abroad like they are commiting some kind of crime and make it hard for them to do things as simple as open a bank account.
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:54 AM   #123
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Re: Facebook Co-Founder Renounces Citizenship Prior to IPO; Haters are Perturbed

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Originally Posted by bobman0330 View Post
This is crazy. Assuming Saverin is subject to the expatriation tax, he will pay taxes on all of his assets as if he sold them for FMV. So he only "evades" taxes on income that arises in the future. And Facebook still pays taxes at the corporate level obviously. And the US will still tax dividends paid to Saverin. Also, as you're probably aware, the US is one of the only countries in the world that taxes nonresident citizens on their worldwide income in the first place.

Are you really saying that once you're a US citizen, all income you earn, ever, even if you leave the country and give up the benefits of citizenship, should be taxable by the US?

The WSJ article says Schumer and Casey are going to unveil some plan to tax expats, which will almost certainly be in flagrant violation of dozens of treaties. Should be good for a laugh.

EDIT:



Delivers already!
I seem to recall in one of the "like it or leave it" threads pointing most of this out, and also making the claim that if the wealthy ever really DID start to actually try to leave the country (eschewing the 'benefits' they get from all that tax money they spend') that public reaction would be outrage and the laws would be changed to be even more draconian.

IOW, "like it or like it." Glad to see that the initial political reaction to this confirms suspicions.
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:56 AM   #124
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Re: Facebook Co-Founder Renounces Citizenship Prior to IPO; Haters are Perturbed

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Originally Posted by SaltyPickles View Post
Capital gains taxes do not account for inflation. Something to consider. You might be really disincentivizing living and investing in the USA.
Capital gains are income. The fact they are not classified as such is ridiculous.

What's disincentivizing investing in the US is not being able to pay $1 an hour in labor w/o any other benefits.

b
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:09 PM   #125
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Re: Facebook Co-Founder Renounces Citizenship Prior to IPO; Haters are Perturbed

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He should pay what the law requires. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm not talking about denouncing citizenship in general, just this case.
You think the law is just coincidentally perfect in this case? The amount he owes, the amount that is fair and just, just happens to be the law?

And if they put a hold on his departure, and quickly change the law, then whats fair is the new law right?
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:23 PM   #126
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Re: Facebook Co-Founder Renounces Citizenship Prior to IPO; Haters are Perturbed

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Originally Posted by Ashington View Post
Less talk about the IPO, more talk about what the US can do to stop the crippling persecution of billionaires imo
The US persecutes some billionaires/millionaires. And others, it coddles and protects at all cost, no matter what they do. The US takes different action for different billionaires.

Is that too much shades of gray for you? Can you maybe start to see why some of us dont like it? Why we arent just pro-billionaire hypocrites?
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:58 PM   #127
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Re: Facebook Co-Founder Renounces Citizenship Prior to IPO; Haters are Perturbed

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Originally Posted by vhawk01 View Post
You think the law is just coincidentally perfect in this case? The amount he owes, the amount that is fair and just, just happens to be the law?

And if they put a hold on his departure, and quickly change the law, then whats fair is the new law right?
No, I don't think the law is perfect as it is. It could be much better. I think all governments should be cooperating so people don't have an ability to evade taxation.

I would have a problem with putting a hold on him until the law is changed. I think it is bad form for a legislator to operate like that.
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Old 05-19-2012, 03:23 PM   #128
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Re: Facebook Co-Founder Renounces Citizenship Prior to IPO; Haters are Perturbed

But you said that the right amount for him to pay is what the law is. why?
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Old 05-19-2012, 03:46 PM   #129
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Re: Facebook Co-Founder Renounces Citizenship Prior to IPO; Haters are Perturbed

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Originally Posted by bernie View Post
Capital gains are income. The fact they are not classified as such is ridiculous.

What's disincentivizing investing in the US is not being able to pay $1 an hour in labor w/o any other benefits.

b
Capital gains are not income, they are capital gains. Capital gains are the profits that one makes from their existing capital, not money earned from services rendered. You really do not see why it is unfair that the government taxes people for capital gains without accounting for inflation? The government taxes on nominal gains, not real gains.

When we raise social secutiry and minimum wage benefits, do you think we should account for inflation or just pick a number out of the sky?

Last edited by SaltyPickles; 05-19-2012 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 05-19-2012, 03:46 PM   #130
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Re: Facebook Co-Founder Renounces Citizenship Prior to IPO; Haters are Perturbed

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But you said that the right amount for him to pay is what the law is. why?
No one should be expected to pay more or less than they have to w/r/t his or her taxes. Taxes are not a punishment imo, but they are still a burden people have to deal with.
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Old 05-19-2012, 03:49 PM   #131
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Re: Facebook Co-Founder Renounces Citizenship Prior to IPO; Haters are Perturbed

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No one should be expected to pay more or less than they have to w/r/t his or her taxes.
I think I'm suffering from heat stroke but this seems pretty circular imo
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Old 05-19-2012, 03:50 PM   #132
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Re: Facebook Co-Founder Renounces Citizenship Prior to IPO; Haters are Perturbed

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What's disincentivizing investing in the US is not being able to pay $1 an hour in labor w/o any other benefits.
The problem is that consumers buy the cheapest priced items and don't want to pay five times the price for the same item because it was made in America. Do you realize that if Nike decided to open factories here that it would be the same as flushing money down the toilet? The only way this system would work is if the US government enforced trade tariffs.
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Old 05-19-2012, 03:53 PM   #133
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Re: Facebook Co-Founder Renounces Citizenship Prior to IPO; Haters are Perturbed

Has anyone asked MZ and company if they think FB is actually worth this much?
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Old 05-19-2012, 03:59 PM   #134
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Re: Facebook Co-Founder Renounces Citizenship Prior to IPO; Haters are Perturbed

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I think I'm suffering from heat stroke but this seems pretty circular imo
I think I see what you mean. Taxes are pretty arbitrary and what I don't want to throw out a percentage I think he should pay because I assume there are a lot of factors that go into making that number. But I would not mind ex-pats getting taxed on their current wealth at a high rate plus being taxed on future income at a lower percentage made above a certain amount for an extended period of time.
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Old 05-19-2012, 04:02 PM   #135
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Re: Facebook Co-Founder Renounces Citizenship Prior to IPO; Haters are Perturbed

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Originally Posted by SaltyPickles View Post
Capital gains are not income, they are capital gains. Capital gains are the profits that one makes from their existing capital, not money earned from services rendered. You really do not see why it is unfair that the government taxes people for capital gains without accounting for inflation? The government taxes on nominal gains, not real gains.
What capital did the other founders of facebook put in? My understanding was that they put nothing in and just used their labor and hard work to build the company, yet their shares will be classified as capital gains? How does getting paid stock for labor make it a capital gains?
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