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| Politics political discourse |
06-11-2012, 05:52 PM
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#1
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Posts: 7,450
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Eric Holder: Worst AG Ever?
I haven't been following politics long enough to know much about past AG's but, it seems that Holder is constantly doing something to upset people.
For poker players, even though it was the SDNY branch, BF was under Holders watch.
There's the vote he will face on contempt charges for Fast and Furious: http://frontporchpolitics.com/2012/0...gainst-holder/
He wanted to try alleged terrorists in NYC for some reason. His DOJ won't enforce DOMA, good or bad, he should still enforce the laws on the books, no? He dropped the civil suit against the New Black Panther Party for voter intimidation.
I'm sure he has done a lot of good for the US, but those stories aren't ever going to be as newsworthy as the negatives, and it seems he just has been a horrible AG. But how does he compare to past AG's?
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06-11-2012, 05:56 PM
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#2
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Don't Call Me Shirley
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Treating my drinking problem.
Posts: 59,573
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Re: Eric Holder: Worst AG Ever?
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His DOJ won't enforce DOMA, good or bad, he should still enforce the laws on the books, no?
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No, they shouldn't. The executive has no duty to enforce and defend bad laws. Or else you think cops should patrol looking for people with ice cream cones in their back pockets on sundays in certain states?
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He dropped the civil suit against the New Black Panther Party for voter intimidation.
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That's because there was no case. This was also a good decision.
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06-11-2012, 06:01 PM
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#3
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: 6'20" and killing for fun.
Posts: 12,224
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Re: Eric Holder: Worst AG Ever?
Seems like John Mitchell has to be in consideration for the worst AG ever, Watergate and all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_N._Mitchell
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06-11-2012, 06:20 PM
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#4
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Houstalantavegas
Posts: 11,843
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Re: Eric Holder: Worst AG Ever?
He is certainly one of the worst but strangely you mention all the good decisions he made.
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06-11-2012, 06:22 PM
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#5
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: 6'20" and killing for fun.
Posts: 12,224
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Re: Eric Holder: Worst AG Ever?
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Originally Posted by brad2002tj
He is certainly one of the worst but strangely you mention all the good decisions he made.
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What would you consider to be his bad decisions?
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06-11-2012, 06:25 PM
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#6
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The land of felony poker
Posts: 4,026
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Re: Eric Holder: Worst AG Ever?
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Originally Posted by MrWookie
No, they shouldn't. The executive has no duty to enforce and defend bad laws.
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This is obviously wrong. The executive doesn't get to simply pick and choose what it deems bad or not, that would give an already bloated executive massively more power. Amend this to say that the executive does not have a duty to enforce and defend laws it deems unconstitutional (not simply bad policy) and you have a better argument.
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06-11-2012, 06:30 PM
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#7
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Houstalantavegas
Posts: 11,843
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Re: Eric Holder: Worst AG Ever?
Quote:
Originally Posted by brad2002tj
He is certainly one of the worst but strangely you mention all the good decisions he made.
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Out of his list, only FnF. I was very surprised he did not resign for this reason alone.
Rounding out my top five, in no particular order:
Providing legal cover for Obama's assassination program/Northwestern speech;
Lawsuits, threats, and raids against medical marijuana dispensaries;
Lawsuit against Arizona re immigration statute;
Prosecuting low-level whistleblowers for espionage while protecting high-level leakers.
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06-11-2012, 06:32 PM
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#8
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It's the other way
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: [ ] REGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE
Posts: 31,863
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Re: Eric Holder: Worst AG Ever?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Get It
I haven't been following politics long enough to know much about past AG's but, it seems that Holder is constantly doing something to upset people.
For poker players, even though it was the SDNY branch, BF was under Holders watch.
There's the vote he will face on contempt charges for Fast and Furious: http://frontporchpolitics.com/2012/0...gainst-holder/
He wanted to try alleged terrorists in NYC for some reason. His DOJ won't enforce DOMA, good or bad, he should still enforce the laws on the books, no? He dropped the civil suit against the New Black Panther Party for voter intimidation.
I'm sure he has done a lot of good for the US, but those stories aren't ever going to be as newsworthy as the negatives, and it seems he just has been a horrible AG. But how does he compare to past AG's?
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Of all the things about this post that make me sad for America, the bolded is in a class by itself.
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06-11-2012, 06:32 PM
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#9
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The land of felony poker
Posts: 4,026
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Re: Eric Holder: Worst AG Ever?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Get It
I haven't been following politics long enough to know much about past AG's but, it seems that Holder is constantly doing something to upset people.
For poker players, even though it was the SDNY branch, BF was under Holders watch.
Okay sure, bad
There's the vote he will face on contempt charges for Fast and Furious: http://frontporchpolitics.com/2012/0...gainst-holder/
Lulz, if he is held in contempt, the charge will be referred to the US Attorney...His US Attorney
He wanted to try alleged terrorists in NYC for some reason.
Meh, is this really a big issue? Is it that much better to have secret trials on a rock off of our southern coast?
His DOJ won't enforce DOMA, good or bad, he should still enforce the laws on the books, no?
An obviously unconstitutional law, why the hell would he defend that?
He dropped the civil suit against the New Black Panther Party for voter intimidation.
Lulz, we're still crying about this?
I'm sure he has done a lot of good for the US, but those stories aren't ever going to be as newsworthy as the negatives, and it seems he just has been a horrible AG. But how does he compare to past AG's?
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At least bring up the stuff that was really truly bad.
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06-11-2012, 06:32 PM
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#10
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Houstalantavegas
Posts: 11,843
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Re: Eric Holder: Worst AG Ever?
Quote:
Originally Posted by will1530
This is obviously wrong. The executive doesn't get to simply pick and choose what it deems bad or not, that would give an already bloated executive massively more power. Amend this to say that the executive does not have a duty to enforce and defend laws it deems unconstitutional (not simply bad policy) and you have a better argument.
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Incorrect. The government does not have the resources to prosecute every violation of every statute, nor would we want them to. Hence the power of prosecutorial discretion.
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06-11-2012, 06:33 PM
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#11
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: 6'20" and killing for fun.
Posts: 12,224
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Re: Eric Holder: Worst AG Ever?
@brad Thanks, you are well versed in your AG! The only thing I thought of was medical marijuana.
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06-11-2012, 06:36 PM
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#12
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The land of felony poker
Posts: 4,026
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Re: Eric Holder: Worst AG Ever?
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Originally Posted by brad2002tj
Incorrect. The government does not have the resources to prosecute every violation of every statute, nor would we want them to. Hence the power of prosecutorial discretion.
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We're not talking about prosecutorial discretion wrt DOMA. We're talking about defending the constitutionality of a federal law properly passed by Congress and signed by the President.
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06-11-2012, 06:49 PM
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#13
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Houstalantavegas
Posts: 11,843
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Re: Eric Holder: Worst AG Ever?
Quote:
Originally Posted by will1530
We're not talking about prosecutorial discretion wrt DOMA. We're talking about defending the constitutionality of a federal law properly passed by Congress and signed by the President.
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Whether to spend time and money defending the constitutionality of DOMA is an excellent example of the administration exercising appropriate discretion. There are private parties litigating the issue and there is no need for AG to get involved.
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06-11-2012, 06:58 PM
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#14
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Paradigm Party
Posts: 7,698
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Worst op ever?
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06-11-2012, 07:00 PM
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#15
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Posts: 7,450
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Re: Eric Holder: Worst AG Ever?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie
No, they shouldn't. The executive has no duty to enforce and defend bad laws. Or else you think cops should patrol looking for people with ice cream cones in their back pockets on sundays in certain states?
That's because there was no case. This was also a good decision.
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"Bad laws" is completely relative, I'm sure a bunch of people think DOMA is a "good law", it's more the thought that an AG should enforce what ever laws are on the books no matter what, if you don't like the law then fight to have it changed.
I get the point about the beyond absurd laws that are still in some states books, and I would argue that everyone thinks the ice cream back pocket law is just plain dumb, but I would also argue that a lot of people think DOMA is a viable enforceable law. In the same fashion people have disagreements about the legality of the individual mandate in Obamacare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brad2002tj
He is certainly one of the worst but strangely you mention all the good decisions he made.
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Links to the bad things he's done? Also links to what other AG's have done, I don't know if I could name another AG w/o google, that's how little I know about past AG's. Anyone have stories/articles/links to terribad or good past AG decisions for comparison?
Also what has Holder done good for the US? Has he done anything outstanding, I really don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlelou
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I guess this guy takes the cake.
Last edited by Go Get It; 06-11-2012 at 07:07 PM.
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