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Old 01-20-2016, 01:15 PM   #201
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Re: The Environment

So 2015 was the warmest month ever and December 2 degrees F above normal - the first time that's ever happened

Climate Change is a Hoax
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Old 01-20-2016, 04:47 PM   #202
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Re: The Environment

Most rational people don't believe climate change is a hoax. But can you provide me with some evidence why temperature rising is a bad thing and that it's man made?
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Old 01-20-2016, 05:36 PM   #203
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Re: The Environment

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Most rational people don't believe climate change is a hoax. But can you provide me with some evidence why temperature rising is a bad thing and that it's man made?
Re: it being a bad thing, it melts ice and lots of people live next to the ocean.
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Old 01-20-2016, 05:43 PM   #204
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Re: The Environment

Took a long time to admit it was happening, but that's old old news. Admitting humans contribute is already kinda old news.

"So?" - is the new line for "rational" opposition.
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Old 01-20-2016, 05:52 PM   #205
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Re: The Environment

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Took a long time to admit it was happening, but that's old old news. Admitting humans contribute is already kinda old news.

"So?" - is the new line for "rational" opposition.
Yep.
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Old 01-20-2016, 06:01 PM   #206
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Re: The Environment

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Yep.
It's mildly amusing because many (most, all?) of the same people who scoffed at global warming proponents while mocking them every time it snowed now, without even acknowledging that they were wrong (either to themselves or to the rest of us) now try to put on a cloak of steel-eyed realism and demand explanations as to why warming maters, like they know it doesn't and are now going to show how we are the ones out of touch with reality.
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Old 01-20-2016, 06:09 PM   #207
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Re: The Environment

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Took a long time to admit it was happening, but that's old old news. Admitting humans contribute is already kinda old news.

"So?" - is the new line for "rational" opposition.
So no evidence? Why do you think climate change is a bad thing? Since you think humans are the main cause of this, what's your solution?
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Old 01-20-2016, 06:13 PM   #208
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Re: The Environment

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It's mildly amusing because many (most, all?) of the same people who scoffed at global warming proponents while mocking them every time it snowed now, without even acknowledging that they were wrong (either to themselves or to the rest of us) now try to put on a cloak of steel-eyed realism and demand explanations as to why warming maters, like they know it doesn't and are now going to show how we are the ones out of touch with reality.
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So no evidence? Why do you think climate change is a bad thing? Since you think humans are the main cause of this, what's your solution?
See, Microbet? lol.
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Old 01-20-2016, 06:19 PM   #209
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Re: The Environment

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So no evidence? Why do you think climate change is a bad thing? Since you think humans are the main cause of this, what's your solution?
1. Lol.

2. When in doubt, do no harm. Duh.

3. (not a random image. That's my project - not fully complete in that picture)
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Old 01-20-2016, 06:20 PM   #210
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Re: The Environment

@mtb. lol, it didn't take long, either.
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Old 01-20-2016, 06:23 PM   #211
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Re: The Environment

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1. Lol.

2. When in doubt, do no harm. Duh.

3. (not a random image. That's my project - not fully complete in that picture)
Nice. Pretty impressive work. How much energy would that produce? Do you know what % of the earths energy comes from solar?
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Old 01-20-2016, 06:32 PM   #212
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Re: The Environment

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Nice. Pretty impressive work. How much energy would that produce? Do you know what % of the earths energy comes from solar?
Thank you.

There are some problems there that are visible, but it was complicated because a basically criminal contractor started the project and we had to remove most of the equipment and reinstall. But, that's why the tilts are not really very good.

That's 200kw - will average about a 1000kwh/day.

It's big for me, but by no means a huge solar project.

The last question is tricky. Earth's energy?

The growth of solar energy for electrical power is pretty astounding. (note that that chart goes down to zero - not one of those where they trick you into thinking a change is bigger than it really is.)



When I started in the business solar was basically zero percent of anything, now it's a serious part of the energy sector in many places and it's still growing like that and prices are still falling fast.
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Old 01-20-2016, 06:59 PM   #213
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Re: The Environment

Sorry, I meant what % of the earths energy use comes from solar? It's less then 1%. Do you think solar can scale to provide cheap and reliable energy to 7 billion people. Without causing any "harm" to the climate?
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Old 01-20-2016, 07:19 PM   #214
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Re: The Environment

I think solar will provide a significant portion of the world's power in the near future. Significant doesn't mean most of it, but up there among other big sources - wind and hydro as well.

Right now solar is getting near 10% in Germany and Germany is not the sunniest place in the world. 15-20% of world wide energy production in 10 years is possible, in 20 years I think inevitable.

Here's the other half of the trend for solar - costs going down:



Adoption is really so inevitable, it's not something that needs to be argued for support. Something else that has changed in the 8 years I've been in the business is that the political orientation of most of my customers has become primarily conservative. It's all about the money now. Pretty much no one talks about it being green. In fact, for a while people would go out of their way to say they weren't doing it for the environment, but we're in a post having to explain you're not a hippie market now.
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Old 01-20-2016, 08:06 PM   #215
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Re: The Environment

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Source?
Just seen this because this isn't a thread I open often.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/19/us...is-whats-next/

I saw it on another source, I don't recall where.

Basically its a super cheap anti corrosive agent they just didn't add to the water. To save 36 grand, accidentally or on purpose, they have caused billions in damage just of the pipes let alone harm to people.
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Old 01-20-2016, 08:29 PM   #216
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Re: The Environment

Basically can not have been on purpose. One site I read said $100 of whatever they needed to treat the water to make it less corrosive would have prevented almost all the contamination. There is a lot of lead in pipes everywhere and this will probably have an effect for the next hundred years or so.

But, lead used to be pretty ubiquitous. Very interesting story how the scientist working on carbon dating to establish the age of the earth ended up finding that there was lead contamination everywhere and then campaigning for decades to get it out of gas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clair_Cameron_Patterson

Lead in the atmosphere peaked when I was born through my first few years.



Sucks.
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Old 01-20-2016, 08:31 PM   #217
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Re: The Environment

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I think solar will provide a significant portion of the world's power in the near future. Significant doesn't mean most of it, but up there among other big sources - wind and hydro as well.

Right now solar is getting near 10% in Germany and Germany is not the sunniest place in the world. 15-20% of world wide energy production in 10 years is possible, in 20 years I think inevitable.

Here's the other half of the trend for solar - costs going down:



Adoption is really so inevitable, it's not something that needs to be argued for support. Something else that has changed in the 8 years I've been in the business is that the political orientation of most of my customers has become primarily conservative. It's all about the money now. Pretty much no one talks about it being green. In fact, for a while people would go out of their way to say they weren't doing it for the environment, but we're in a post having to explain you're not a hippie market now.

Germany coal power has also risen and they are continueing to build more coal powered plants because they have closed their nuclear plants.

I have nothing against solar or any other forms of energy. But there is nothing that compare's to the cost, reliability and abundance of fossil fuels.
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Old 01-20-2016, 08:33 PM   #218
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Re: The Environment

Please allow me to pre-empt Shifty's next post, which I assume will be "BASELINE POWER THO also I am smarter than you so I will phrase all my posts in questions?".

Edit: Damnit, wrong. That would have been a great x-post.
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Old 01-20-2016, 08:36 PM   #219
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Re: The Environment

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Germany coal power has also risen and they are continueing to build more coal powered plants because they have closed their nuclear plants.

I have nothing against solar or any other forms of energy. But there is nothing that compare's to the cost, reliability and abundance of fossil fuels.
You really say that looking at charts like that? I mean, do you see what direction things are going? Do you think the sun is not abundant?

http://cleantechnica.com/2015/07/10/...ts-record-low/

The new record low price for solar is under 4 cents per kwh for a utility scale project. And this is not something that has flattened out. The next record will be under 3 cents and then probably under 2 cents before it flattens and that will be in just the next few years.
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Old 01-20-2016, 09:02 PM   #220
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Re: The Environment

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Germany coal power has also risen and they are continueing to build more coal powered plants because they have closed their nuclear plants.

I have nothing against solar or any other forms of energy. But there is nothing that compare's to the cost, reliability and abundance of fossil fuels.
only if you ignore externalized costs
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Old 01-20-2016, 09:35 PM   #221
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Re: The Environment

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only if you ignore externalized costs
I mean, this is a guy who puts quotes around "harm" when he's referring to environmental damages associated with product manufacturing. He doesn't believe in the greenhouse gas effect. Of course his cost/benefit analysis is going to be worthless.
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Old 01-20-2016, 10:25 PM   #222
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Re: The Environment

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Originally Posted by ChrisV View Post
Please allow me to pre-empt Shifty's next post, which I assume will be "BASELINE POWER THO also I am smarter than you so I will phrase all my posts in questions?".

Edit: Damnit, wrong. That would have been a great x-post.
I asked a couple simple questions and was greeted with arrogant and stupid responses like "ice is melting and people live close to water" or "when in doubt do no harm, duh". As if solar panels just magically appear out of thin air. If solar and wind were any way economical and/or reliable with the 100's of billions of dollars invested in them they'd have more then 1% of the global energy used.

Facts are that since the 1970's "leading" environmental scientist have been saying we are on the verge of catastrophic climate change mostly due to CO2 emissions. Since then CO2 emissions have more then doubled and there has never been a better time to be alive. Life expectancy is at all time highs, climate related deaths are at an all time low and have reduced by almost 99% since the early 1900's. None of that is possible without the industrial revolution and the use of fossil fuels.

Now please show me some evidence that shows climate change is man made, a rise in temperature is a bad thing and ending or greatly reducing the worlds use of fossil fuels won't put 100's of millions of peoples lives at risk.
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Old 01-20-2016, 10:37 PM   #223
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Re: The Environment

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So 2015 was the warmest month ever and December 2 degrees F above normal - the first time that's ever happened
Even with El Nino boosting temps, we're still below climate models.
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Old 01-20-2016, 10:45 PM   #224
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Re: The Environment

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Now please show me some evidence that shows climate change is man made, a rise in temperature is a bad thing and ending or greatly reducing the worlds use of fossil fuels won't put 100's of millions of peoples lives at risk.
Incredible.
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Old 01-20-2016, 10:49 PM   #225
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Re: The Environment

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Re: it being a bad thing, it melts ice and lots of people live next to the ocean.
You'll have a few decade head start if you want to not live near the ocean before sea level rise will impact you.
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