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Empires never last; how long does the USA have? Empires never last; how long does the USA have?

08-19-2011 , 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3x Range Merger
America is NOT an empire, it is a country.
08-19-2011 , 10:10 AM
Our empire can't fall.

World leaders outside of the US realize that they desperately want us to never fail. Why?

We have a lot of nukes. And, if our economy would totally collapse, and we got desperate...well, that wouldn't be good.

Sure we will get small little cells that commit acts on our soil, but there will never be a country that decides to just totally kick us when we're "down" because that would end their existence.
08-19-2011 , 10:40 AM
At least we get +2 armies every turn.
08-19-2011 , 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Banana
This is not what has happened in the US. Voters do not vote themselves anything btw.
Wow
08-19-2011 , 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the steam
Wow
That sums it up quite well. I'm not sure if that post was a huge level, but I certainly hope so.
08-19-2011 , 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackaaron
Our empire can't fall.

World leaders outside of the US realize that they desperately want us to never fail. Why?

We have a lot of nukes. And, if our economy would totally collapse, and we got desperate...well, that wouldn't be good.

Sure we will get small little cells that commit acts on our soil, but there will never be a country that decides to just totally kick us when we're "down" because that would end their existence.
wat.

The USSR had/has a lot of nukes. Their economy collapsed, they got desperate, but a Dr Strangelove situation never transpired.
08-19-2011 , 12:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3x Range Merger
America is NOT an empire, it is a country.
We have more than 800 military bases overseas, with special attention to any region connected to oil. What do you call that beast?
08-19-2011 , 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cres
wat.

The USSR had/has a lot of nukes. Their economy collapsed, they got desperate, but a Dr Strangelove situation never transpired.
Maybe I misunderstood...Russia is still around. Things have changed, obviously, but the country is still...Russia.

Maybe I misunderstood because my idea of an empire not lasting is that it doesn't exist anymore. For example, there is no Roman Empire. It's gone.

The Russian empire is not like it was in, say, 1980. But, there is still a LOT of national pride in that country, and although they were down, they appear to be inching their way back.
08-19-2011 , 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Banana
You could if you chose pay your debt back tomorrow with no really bad consequences. There is no "debt crisis". It's entirely manufactured. Why would anyone manufacture it? Did you not notice your "liberal" president agreeing that he needs to steal seniors' share of your nation's resources?

Nearly everything in your post is wrong, I'm sorry to say, and you'll look back on it in five or ten years and laugh at yourself. Really.
Who is going to pay back any debt? We are continuing to borrow and whatever we can't borrow is printed by the Federal Reserve via QE1, QE2, and soon QE3. We are so far away from a balanced budget, that anyone suggesting such an insane policy is considered a radical. How can a country's debt be sustainable if they are constantly running deficits of over $1 trillion? Tack on the fact that we are paying nearly $500 billion in interest next fiscal year. That number is going to keep increasing, especially if our credit rating is downgraded again and/or downgraded by Moody's as well.

Seniors are going to get their share. Neither party will allow any significant cuts to happen and the debt is going to keep increasing.
08-19-2011 , 02:30 PM
Empires last as long as wealth is transferred in, not out. I posted last year or so ago and was resoundingly told I was wrong. A colony, like a corporate subsidiary, is only viable with a positive revenue stream. But the USA mantra has been since WW2, spend spend spend. Expend cash on foreign soil & bases with zero potential return. Every elected official, including the TP ones, want to continue the spread the message activities, it's their tabernacle. They will continue the sermon, with a finish of passing the collection plate to save the heathens.
08-19-2011 , 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Banana
You will continue to get what you want because you have 300 million consumers and a lot of natural resources. You could pretty much disband your military and the only problem you'd be causing would be the increase in unemployment.
Huh?? The Good Ol' U.S. of A. is one of the top 5 gun runners on the planet... then other 4 are the other 4 permanent members of the of the U.N. Security Council..........would they be able to fill the void? Would they end up fighting over who gets to their guns to who? Would you feel as safe as you do now? Not that you feel safe now........but would you feel even less safe than you do now?
08-19-2011 , 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Haywood
We have more than 800 military bases overseas, with special attention to any region connected to oil. What do you call that beast?
I call that "mutual assurance of destruction." An enemy of ours, or our allies, cannot attack one of our allies without attacking us & if they attack us......well we have, you know.........a lotta plutonium......enriched......that is, weapons grade enriched........BOOM MUDDA FUDDA!!

Plus, it keeps the MIC and banks rollin' in $$$$
08-19-2011 , 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackaaron
Maybe I misunderstood...Russia is still around. Things have changed, obviously, but the country is still...Russia.

Maybe I misunderstood because my idea of an empire not lasting is that it doesn't exist anymore. For example, there is no Roman Empire. It's gone.

The Russian empire is not like it was in, say, 1980. But, there is still a LOT of national pride in that country, and although they were down, they appear to be inching their way back.
Actually, Russia is not still Russia. Geographically it has changed tremendously, and it does not control / influence nearly as many countries as it did in the 1900s. Yes, the country of Russia still exists, and it still has a substantial military force, but it no longer nearly the world power it once was.
08-19-2011 , 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Haywood
We have more than 800 military bases overseas, with special attention to any region connected to oil. What do you call that beast?
Freedom! sweet sweet freedom, LDO.
08-19-2011 , 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackaaron
Maybe I misunderstood...Russia is still around. Things have changed, obviously, but the country is still...Russia.

Maybe I misunderstood because my idea of an empire not lasting is that it doesn't exist anymore. For example, there is no Roman Empire. It's gone.

The Russian empire is not like it was in, say, 1980. But, there is still a LOT of national pride in that country, and although they were down, they appear to be inching their way back.
I never saw the Russians as an empire, more of a Union builder. Communist, but not in the manner Lenin wanted but the direction Stalin went. I don't think Stalin had grand plans of global conquest, his intent was to make Russia strong against those that wanted to point swords at her.

From history it was Napolean, then Hitler, that forced them to battle for their own soil. The after effects of WW2 were expected, the Russians fortified their position against another attack, and the other allies began sabre rattling. Russia has more than enough resources within its own borders to last generations, they don't need the world's resources like Americans do. It's nice to point out the Commies as the evil enemy, but who was more the aggressor post WW2?

Are there Russians that want to take over the world? Probably as many as American, British, Ugandan, or Saudi. I think the Russians see Americans as pests, from half a world away wanting to play dictator.
08-19-2011 , 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Banana
This is not what has happened in the US. Voters do not vote themselves anything btw. Maybe you've misunderstood how the political process works?
I do understand that we have a representative form of government versus a true democracy and that it is the Congress & Senate that actually make the rules and laws. And I understand that lobbyist exert a lot of influence upon those two houses.

That said, most politicians seem to love their jobs (natural assumption based upon how much time, money, & effort they spend in order to get re-elected) and voters DO have a direct say in who gets elected or not elected. And this is of course exactly why politicians on BOTH sides of the aisle have been unwilling & unable to tackled our debt problems head-on.

Any politician (especially any politician in the democratic party) who tries to take away or substantially reduce benefits (be it benefits to seniors via medicare or social security, benefits to the poor via medicaid, or benefits to government workers, teachers, etc. via pensions), will quickly find themselves looking for a job come the next election.

There are two reasons why our debt problems will likely NEVER be solved without at least one of the following two changes to our system of government:

1) Term limits should be enacted.

As long as politicians have to pander to the masses in order to get re-elected, they'll never be willing or able to make the hard choices necessary to solve the problems we face.

Moreover, they spend so much time & money on getting re-elected that they probably simply don't have the time to solve these problems. I'd wager significant money that most Congressman and Senators spend AT LEAST 1/4 of their time (and likely more) actively working on their re-election campaigns versus the time they spend actually governing.

Historically, this country was not designed to have "career politicians". The idea was that men (now men & women) would come out of their local business, religious, or government community, spend a term or two governing in the NATIONAL arena, and then return to their local community & pick up wherever they left off. I don't think it was anticipated that they would govern for life.

2) Congress should NEVER be allowed to enact any law that they themselves are not bound by. Most people are unaware that members of Congress do not participate in the same social security system that all other Americans are bound to, nor do they share the same health care system. Moreover, they vote on what they should be paid, and once elected, they receive their salary FOR LIFE, even if they only serve a single term!! What a sweet deal they've arranged for themselves. Nothing I hate more than to hear a politician talk about their "service" or "sacrifice" to their country. HA! More like pigs sucking off the tits of the American people!!

Something to consider:

How much more likely would it be that our politicians would make the right choices if A) they knew they could not run for re-election, and b) they themselves and their immediate families would have to live under the same rules and system they created?

End rant/
09-11-2011 , 04:44 PM
Received the following via email. I realize it has zero chance of coming to fruition, but one can dream . . .

Congressional Reform Act of 2011

1. No Tenure / No Pension.
A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they are out of office.

2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security.
All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.

3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.

4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.

6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.

7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/12.
The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen--Congressmen made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work.
09-11-2011 , 04:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pride of Cucamonga
Received the following via email. I realize it has zero chance of coming to fruition, but one can dream . . .

Congressional Reform Act of 2011

1. No Tenure / No Pension.
A Congressman collects a salary while in office and receives no pay when they are out of office.

2. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security.
All funds in the Congressional retirement fund move to the Social Security system immediately. All future funds flow into the Social Security system, and Congress participates with the American people. It may not be used for any other purpose.

3. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan, just as all Americans do.

4. Congress will no longer vote themselves a pay raise. Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

5. Congress loses their current health care system and participates in the same health care system as the American people.

6. Congress must equally abide by all laws they impose on the American people.

7. All contracts with past and present Congressmen are void effective 1/1/12.
The American people did not make this contract with Congressmen--Congressmen made all these contracts for themselves. Serving in Congress is an honor, not a career. The Founding Fathers envisioned citizen legislators, so ours should serve their term(s), then go home and back to work.
Nope. Never gonna happen.
I hate to be a cynic, but no way.
09-11-2011 , 05:02 PM
Why no pension? Sounds like a great way to encourage corruption.
09-11-2011 , 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven_Q_Erkel
Part of my graduate work was actually a paper on this exact topic of which I titled "The Future of Democracy". I received a high grade, 97%, despite not even having a bibliography. Such is so, my paper as it were concludes that a perennial confusion brought about by an increased transparency with the perception of democratic principles will lead to a new, satanic, ideology that I dub a "demonocracy".
LOLUseducation
09-11-2011 , 07:40 PM
A day late and a dollar short, but here you go anyway:

America may be the only empire that will never end. I have talked at length with students of Roman history and while I have not closely studied the subject I have developed a good sense for what circumstances have led to the fall of empires.

Historically, competing armies would find until one surrendered- their treasures would then be plundered and their people enslaved. These days, the armies of the world aren't in competition.

The neo-cons have been playing "Risk" since WW2 ended. The bankers are the neo-cons so it doesn't matter what party you're with. The world's financiers have set the stage for WW3 to take place involving the UN countries and the nations which support terrorism.

There are groups working quietly to generate computer models of the war... find videos of computer models of war with Iran. If you get the chance to listen to these people they'll convince you that the cards have already been dealt and we just need to watch the players play their hands. Of course, there are many possible scenarios. Some nations will be obliterated, sacrificed for the great power, and other nations may submit to it. At this time, nobody is willing to write a new bible (by this I mean a propaganda campaign which mezmerizes the public into submission through prophecy) because of the instability of the regimes in certain nations. I mean, with today's news cycle, if you can't relay your study to the public with 100% confidence of your data, method, and findings your call to action will never gain traction. I do not keep abreast of the most recent findings, myself- but what little I have grasped makes me think that the table is set for a UN victory backed by the USA.

With most folks captivated by Facebook and football, the only place where this topic is "P.C." note the pun, is internet forum discussion. Sadly, this forum is easy far too easy for our mainstream masters to discredit. Anyway, you heard it here first: America's empire will live on for as long as humanity lasts. OK, it won't remain America as we know it. The Constitution will be mangled, the values of Revolutionary figures will be forgotten, and these states will no longer be the land of the free and the home of the brave- but the stars and stripes will be flying long after you and I are buried.

Last edited by ebarnet; 09-11-2011 at 07:50 PM. Reason: proof-reading ftw
09-11-2011 , 10:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Haywood
We have more than 800 military bases overseas, with special attention to any region connected to oil. What do you call that beast?
Repeating the mistakes of the Rome and the USSR? At some point, the over-extended war machine just gets too expensive for an empire to maintain.
09-11-2011 , 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramid_Scam
We have as long as it takes before an entire 2/5 no limit table in Florida buys in full. That is 10 players @ $500- ain't gonna happen

Foreverland sir
What's the rake down there, max $6?
So, avg. rake maybe $4?
avg hands per hr 30?
total rake $120.00?
avg tip per hand $1.00 * 30 = $30.00

total $$ raked from table per hr = $150.00
(assuming everyone pays for their drinks from cash in their pockets)

Wanna avg. $25.00 an hr over the course of year, playing 2/5 NL?

You need the rest of 9 players losing $175.00 per hr.

Should be easy to do................no?
09-11-2011 , 11:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brons
Why no pension? Sounds like a great way to encourage corruption.
ya they're not corrupted at all atm

fwiw "no reelection" would be the best thing to happen to western world in a looong time (even if that means longer governing periods in the first place).

      
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