Drugs in Portugal: Did Decriminalization Work? - Page 13 - Politics and Economics

**Regret$** · 08-27-2012, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake7777

maybe I'm being obtuse, but why does that make it easier? I would think it's easier to illegalize things for smaller country ldo but why is it easier for a smaller country to legalize?

It is easy because there are less people you have to convince that their state has no right to needlessly punish them. The people of Portugal are the only reason that this self-imposed terrorist campaign ended in their country. They said to themselves, "why should I do this to my brother, sister and cousin?"

In the USA it has always been us against them. There is no fairness because we are still huntin for injuns! Ok, so all the indians are dead, time to turn on the population for APPLE PIE AND MOTHER****ING FREEDOM. What a farce. Sick the number of alcoholics in this country that watch hippy pot smokers get smashed in the face and can't even see themselves in the hippies. We are so quick to forget when our grown-ass adult daughter's virginity is on the line! (Oh yeah and the whore lost her virginity a long time ago. Daddy's whore princess imo.)

WAAF

govman6767 · 08-27-2012, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliBobby

No. It is debatable that the alternatives even work at all.

phynelepineprie (or watever) IN NO WAY

works as good as pseduoepinehpine

maybe you should have allergys or sinus problems

Or get addicted to nasal spray to find out which OTC remides work...

Nothing ever came close to getting me off nasal spray like psedo did.

Phenyl would in no way open my nasal passages after 4 hrs without nasal spray

so anyone who seriously thinks like this is being ignorant and I don't really care if they don't like the title it's just fact.

govman6767 · 08-27-2012, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gankstar

.Meanwhile millions of people have done bath salts and not eaten anyone's face

ok this I do not believe not the face eating part the fact where MILLIONS of people have done bath salts

WSOP2007 · 08-27-2012, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobman0330

You said you don't think it works, because street dealers are dangerous. But in fact, compared to the status quo, Portugal's decriminalization has been INCREDIBLY SUCCESSFUL. You didn't say that you think it works OK, but that coffeeshops would work better.

I think the coffeeshop model is a great way to cater to drug tourism, but not really a good way to get junkies a fix. AIUI, the idea of the coffeeshop is that you buy the weed there, smoke it there, then leave. That's fine when the drug is cannabis, but who wants to operate a business that's required to be inside of a crack house? Or who wants to have a bunch of junkies shooting up and nodding off for hours in the corner of your business?

That's not the idea of coffee shops in The Netherlands. They are like McDonalds; takeaway is always an option. People smoke outside and in their homes too.

Intestingly, eventhough it is compeletely legal to buy joints here in the Netherlands, I've seen statistics in the past that usage rates are relatively low compared to countries as USA and France.

govman6767 · 08-27-2012, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gankstar

We are the most incarcerated country on Earth, now, and in its entire history. Countries like China and India that have far more people than we do have less total prisoners. .

I agree with your stance but I'm guessing china might have less prisoners because they just shoot the person in their home that they suspect of something insterad of wasting monies on trial and jail

grizy · 08-27-2012, 07:43 PM

We're so far ahead of China even with that adjustment (and executions) we would have a lot more prisoners.

The claim I find dubious is we're the most incarcerated country in earth's entire history.

I could think a pretty large number of regimes/countries that incarcerated or executed 1% of its population. I suspect Nazi Germany got close to that on holocaust alone (including other minorities). Stalin's Gulags also housed about 1% of Soviet population.

Not even getting into the atrocities (worse in % of population terms) of... well, basically all of human history minus the last 100 years.

govman6767 · 08-27-2012, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grizy

We're so far ahead of China even with that adjustment (and executions) we would have a lot more prisoners.

The claim I find dubious is we're the most incarcerated country in earth's entire history.

I could think a pretty large number of regimes/countries that incarcerated or executed 1% of its population. I suspect Nazi Germany got close to that on holocaust alone (including other minorities). Stalin's Gulags also housed about 1% of Soviet population.

Not even getting into the atrocities (worse in % of population terms) of... well, basically all of human history minus the last 100 years.

I was not aware these countries "documented" somewhere when they just go out to a town or village and shoot some "unfriendlys"

grizy · 08-27-2012, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by govman6767

I was not aware these countries "documented" somewhere when they just go out to a town or village and shoot some "unfriendlys"

We jail like 0.75% of our population. they jail 0.13% or something like that.

To make up the gap we're talking about something like 6 million people.

I suspect even China would have trouble covering that up.

swinginglory · 08-28-2012, 08:41 AM

From the realm of science:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...lowers-IQ.html

Quote:

Professor Terrie Moffitt, of KCL’s Institute of Psychiatry, who contributed to the study, published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, said “persistent users” who started as teenagers suffered a drop of eight IQ points at the age of 38, compared to when they were 13.......

Although eight points did not sound much, it was not trivial, she warned.

It meant that an average person dropped far down the intelligence rankings, so that instead of 50 per cent of the population being more intelligent than them, 71 per cent were........

Prof Moffitt said adolescent brains appeared "more vulnerable to damage and disruption" from cannabis than those of fully mature adults.

lozen · 08-28-2012, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by govman6767

phynelepineprie (or watever) IN NO WAY

works as good as pseduoepinehpine

maybe you should have allergys or sinus problems

Or get addicted to nasal spray to find out which OTC remides work...

Nothing ever came close to getting me off nasal spray like psedo did.

Phenyl would in no way open my nasal passages after 4 hrs without nasal spray

so anyone who seriously thinks like this is being ignorant and I don't really care if they don't like the title it's just fact.

I still remember getting addicted to these. Went off cold turkey tough couple weeks. Have never touched them since.

The usa will never decriminalize as their system is so corupt. Bog money will ensure it doesnt happen.

BoredSocial · 08-28-2012, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Studies have shown that meth addiction goes way up with the purity-level of what's available. If legal meth could somehow be weaker than what they can get from Mexico (and not refinable, etc.) then that might be a good argument. But if it's more pure than what people are getting off the street, that would be disaster.

Also as a funny aside, all good meth nowadays is made from ephedrine or pseudo-ephedrine. There's only a couple of makers of those in the world, and their only legit-buyers are for stuff like Sudafed. It's very hard to make, and not something any Mexican lab could just whip up. It takes a serious industrial-scale chemical processing operation.

If they stopped selling Sudafed it would be pretty easy to shut down the remaining ephedrine and pseudo-ephedrine labs, and meth would go back to being the dirty biker stuff of the 60s and 70s that wasn't nearly the problem it is now. There have been several attempts in the last decade at banning ephedrine and pseudo-ephedrine.

But, the drug industry has a powerful lobby in congress. So untold heartache is going on around the country because they don't want to give up some profits from Sudafed, and have the power to make it happen.

Sorry but there are at least 5 major cartels in Mexico that could easily front and probably have fronted the capital to make high grade meth precursor. 'An industrial scale chemical processing operation' is not a difficult thing to accomplish for an organization that is grossing a few Billion a year.

BoredSocial · 08-28-2012, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grizy

We're so far ahead of China even with that adjustment (and executions) we would have a lot more prisoners.

The claim I find dubious is we're the most incarcerated country in earth's entire history.

I could think a pretty large number of regimes/countries that incarcerated or executed 1% of its population. I suspect Nazi Germany got close to that on holocaust alone (including other minorities). Stalin's Gulags also housed about 1% of Soviet population.

Not even getting into the atrocities (worse in % of population terms) of... well, basically all of human history minus the last 100 years.

The key word is incarcerated. We have literally millions of people in prison in this country. The Nazi's tended to keep their inventory of people somewhat lower

EDIT: I think we'd have a hard time topping Stalinist Russia though.

Cuban B · 09-12-2012, 06:58 PM

Private purchasing of prisons locks in occupancy rates

Quote:

WASHINGTON – At a time when states are struggling to reduce bloated prison populations and tight budgets, a private prison management company is offering to buy prisons in exchange for various considerations, including a controversial guarantee that the governments maintain a 90% occupancy rate for at least 20 years.

The $250 million proposal, circulated by the Nashville-based Corrections Corporation of America to prison officials in 48 states, has been blasted by some state officials who suggest such a program could pressure criminal justice officials to seek harsher sentences to maintain the contractually required occupancy rates.

"You don't want a prison system operating with the goal of maximizing profits," says Texas state Sen. John Whitmire, a Houston Democrat and advocate for reducing prison populations through less costly diversion programs. "The only thing worse is that this seeks to take advantage of some states' troubled financial position."

Hey guys, remind me again who pays for the high occupancy rates and longer sentences?