https://www.theguardian.com/politics...eu-brexit-deal

So how does everyone feel this is going so far?

Pretty much as expected and feared.

The Tories have taken their default position of utter arrogance and contempt for the EU, assuming that in the end 'as they always do'' Johnny foreigner will bend to the mighty will of Britain because they look up to us.

Oh dear.

I feel it is going entirely as expected. I never doubted both sides will try to get their way without compromise on everything.

Sooner we get out the better. I'm thinking ripping off the plaster rather than trying to peel it off with as little pain as possible is the best long term solution, and worst short term solution.

LOL

Not that interested. Europe is a small part of the world and not a particularly important one economically for us as it more or less matches our own economic strengths and weaknesses.

The switchover to trading patterns based on that reality will be 5 years of chaos pretty much regardless though, although of course that's mere seconds in the history of our country.

Did anyone see Vince Cable on talking about how the economy can't cope with the number of EU residents rising by 120,000 from March 2016 to March 2017 instead of the usual 180,000? He calls it a Brexodus.

Countries do the most trade with neighbouring countries, and the EU is our nearest trading partner. To think it's not particularly important to us economically is madness.

That is just being delusional. Europe is the most important trade partner with the UK and it's not even particularly close.

+1 to jalfrezi.

Countries do most trade within their own borders as that's even nearer. International trade is important relative to its volume though because it allows countries to swap strengths and weaknesses (known as comparative advantage) that they can't cover internally.

Imagine or describe what the practical consequences would be if we stopped trading with:
a) the EU
b) China
c) the Arab world / OPEC
d) the African Union

The EU doesn't really match up well with our strengths and weaknesses in the way the others do (i.e. it duplicates them) and it's production is largely replaceable with domestic production or better deals from the rest of the world once we get on the "world" side of the trade-wall rather than the "Europe" side. Therefore it's nothing like as important as the raw volume figures suggest.

The changeover will be 5 years of chaos though.

And still delusional. Numbers weren't good nor were any practical examples of any industrial nation (they all trade a lot with their neighbors) so you decided to do a half-assed SWOT analysis based mostly on your feels.

Oooh, EU is now a trade wall. Can't wait for UK to get those great trade deals! Just like the whole world who can negotiate independently, they are a gold mine that revitalizes nations!

a lot of dumb **** is written to justify brexit. the norway solution, where the uk leaves the custom union but stays in the eea, doesnt prevent the uk from signing their own trade deals (which will be all the same ones as the eu). so

1) you can stay in the single market and still sign you own deals with the rest of the world

2) youre not actually going to trade more with the rest of the world

but it's not going to limit immigration, so it'll be a hard brexit instead despite it having absolutely no advantages.

That it was really difficult to trade with the EU without being in it was the main argument of Remain during the campaign.

Are you admitting this isn't actually true then?

I missed this bus advert from the leave side.

Once you've reverted to mud huts, tribal warfare, incest and cannibalism there isn't really any way back for some thousands of years.

Possibly the best preview of Brexit Britain can be found here:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/28_Days_Later

-- except it's childishly optimistic, as in reality there will be no 'rescue'.

lol at you people willing to sacrifice the democracy of the UK to the EU bureaucracy gristmill forever as opposed to dealing with a short-term 5-10 years of problems.

I want a government in charge that can actually be voted out by the people in the UK when they get stuff wrong, not a system where we just shrug our shoulders when the EU ****s it up again and again, cos there's nothing we can do about it.

One Breixter says 5 years of hell, another says 5 to 10 years.

I don't remember either admitting this in the run up to the referendum. Anyone might think they haven't got a clue what they're talking about.

I never had any illusions it would be easy, if that helps. I just didn't buy the remain lies about 'end of western civilisation' and all that bollocks - and nor did I believe the leave lies about 350 mill to the NHS etc.

I felt drain of democracy into the EU swamp was something we as a country needed to walk away from - and Brexit was probably the last chance to do that.

I can see now that if it had been the other way by a tiny margin, the EU would just go on with business as usual - they ignored the incursions of the far right in Austria and Netherlands like it was nothing - so how else can you deal with the EU juggernaut, other than leave? And how will the people of Europe deal with it? Either put up with lack of local democracy and its drive to superstatedom, or bring it down. I'm pretty sure it will be the latter, but if it's the former - thank goodness we have an escape route.

And don't give me that bollocks about it only changes when nations want it to change - Germany's guilt is still such that it cannot properly assess balance between nations and superstate properly, and this feeds the EU mill.

Diebitter still comes back to his debunked argument that we can't vote out EU politicians. But the painfull period has already increased to 5-10 years. By the end of the negotiations, that are more and more likely to fail, I expect 10-20 years will be acceptable to get rid of those foreigners.
Foreigners it turns out the UK actually needs to keep their economy going but who are now going to other EU countries.

Hah the old 'racist' card eh?

Its the Godwin Law of this thread.

Nah its the truth that you and your kind are motivated by a xenophobic anti immigrant little englander agenda, not the gibberish you keep spouting about sovereignty back ffs.

In other words, you're a big fat racist.

Lies about sovereignty back, silence while the US bends you over and sticks it's bombers crews in heart of UK. You keep ignoring the fact that the tory bastards will do nothing to help the working and poor or all their lies to get to this position. And you dgaf how much it costs us all.

These all your types......

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b0c2e24ab0ec18

FU.

No answer to this, but 57 on Red thinks it'll be like the film 28 Days Later when we start to have difficulties trading with the EU.

In reality the truth is somewhere in between, but
a) to the extent it's difficult for outsiders trade with EU countries, that's a reason not to be an EU country, and
b) to the extent it's not difficult to trade with them then it's just less of a reason to participate in the next hopeless experiment in building a multi-national country in Europe.

(on five years of chaos)
It was a fairly well worn argument for Remain during the campaign though.

I hardly posted ITT before the referendum but I've always been pretty clear that people who think and plan based on a 5-year time horizon should vote Remain.

I guess demonising people is your thing. Saves you trying to think.

We keep coming back to the fact that the argument for brexit you keep repeating is bogus. EU is democratic, also I don't see any brexit people going hard after the house of lords. The trade argument is falling apart because you keep increasing the amount of hurt you expect from brexit. So the one thing remaining is what we keep pointing out. Racism was the main driver for brexit. Woild love to see you give some coherent argument why we are wrong.

I don't disagree that racism wasn't a main driver. It's just some people cannot envision someone voting for brexit for non racist reasons.

And I disagree the EU is democratic. It is profoundly antidemocratic, and tries to wrest any democratic process from nations at every opportunity, and put power into the hands of its bureaucracy.

Also I agree the house of lords is antidemocratic too. If there were a vote to abolish it, I'd vote for that too.

Fake news