Has that estonian guy destroyed Britain yet?

Even if we accept that EEA immigration is a net positive, one of Leave's concerns is that the EU has lost control of its borders, potentially opening the way to a much greater proportion of non-EEA immigrants and leading to Cologne-style situations in the UK.

But you live on a fkn island. How can the UK not have control over their borders? Thats not Austria or Germany where you can walk across the continent. Germany and France wont just stand by and watch immigrants boarding boats on the coast to get across the Channel.

The EU requires that anyone with a EU passport be permitted to travel and work anywhere within the EU.

After leaving, the most likely situation is that anyone with an EU passport would be able to travel and visit visa-free, but to work in the UK, you'd need some sort of permission. This might be a visa (like most countries) or might be a work permit (which already applies to the Isle of Man and, I think, the other Crown Dependencies, which are outside the EU currently).

But I am not talking about EU passport holders atm. It was about non EEA immigrants the post above mine and the fear of colone-style situations.

No. Access to the single market will be conditional on free movement for EU citizens. The only difference will be that, no longer being in the EU, we'll have no say at all on limiting the free-movement clause.

This has got to be the most important vote of the decade, in the entire world. I will be watching the results closely.

Odds for remain shortened pretty significantly over the last week. From an average of about 4/7 to 1/3

For now maybe, but only until November.

I disagree. Brexit would be a structural change of the political system. DOnald Trump vs Hillary(if it is Trump) is not nearly as important. Trump cant win and even if he did he would be hamstrung in office. Brexit is a very very different type of election imo.

The UK and France have an agreement that says that France has to check visas before people cross the channel. That's why the refugee camps are in the north of France and not on British beaches. A French minister had said that in case of Brexit the agreement would be canceled and they would let everyone cross, but that was probably bull****.

Glad you're clear about it.

The sheer power of the USA make Trump seem more important (and maybe it is) but otherwise I agree totally because Europe is a very fast evolving serious player on the world stage. Historical decisions are being made.

One of the reasons the debate has been so depressing is the short term nature of all the arguments. The problem is that the pro-EU people keep trying to minimize the EU's significance rather than argue for ongoing political union as a huge deal and a good thing. That may or may not be the right tactic for the referendum but if it is a good tactic it's because the pro-EU side has been so defensive for decades.

I think remain can thank Farage for that. The poster he unveiled yesterday was pretty distasteful on it's own, but set against the backdrop of Jo Cox's murder......you would think politicians could have maintained a sense of decency for the last few days.

@ chezlaw
Ive only paid attention to this for a week but the more you learn about it the more intriguing it is. It goes pretty far down the rabbit hole.
It also should be noted that brexit will cause a ripple effect of some sort that is quite LARGE.

economics precedes politics and politics precedes war, I dont expect things of this sort to become more decent in the near future.

Farage is a ****ing dreadful person and tbh if I found myself on the same side of an argument I'd want to check myself pretty quickly.

Cameron focused on economics again yesterday as far as I have heard. But people who think that they have been left behind won't be persuaded by that talk I think. They dont care about big companies or even despise them.

If the UK votes for Brexit and Cameron retires will there be elections or just a change of the PM? Elections in the wake of a Brexit could really boost UKIP.
I read about few of UKIP goals and it sounds a lot like Republicans with all their denial of climate change, hating on immigrants and lowering taxes.

...which could later be unmade once they've clearly gone horribly wrong (the EU would welcome the UK back into the fold, though probably not on such generous terms); whereas a nuclear strike is far harder to undo.

This

Farage is being fully unmasked as the odious racist he's always denied being. The latest poster reminded me of some of the campaigns run in the 70's by the National Front.

I think this is true and helps explain why a strong economic argument hasn't had the expected effect.

Some jobless Outs with little hope of improving their lot might even be opposing anything backed by big business out of spite.

There's no need to call a GE when a PM resigns mid-term - his party choose a successor, who immediately becomes PM (as did Ford after Nixon).

UKIP are even worse than the Republicans, who at least have established and published values and goals. UKIP, if they were ever to become more popular, would be ripe for a take over by a more intelligent but equally vile person whose message might change little from the present, while carrying severely sinister undertones.

That's not the right way to be looking at it in historical terms. The UK may later rejoin but the EU it rejoins may be vastly different to the EU if it remains. There is one very strong argument for Brexit and that is that it's good for Europe. It's not at all reasonable to think the full of opt outs, grudging membership of the UK has long been holding it back. Obviously this argument suffers from being most relevant to people who don't have a vote.

There's also the possibility that the UK leaving will be the beginning of the end for the EU in it's current form as the anti-EU forces in the other countries start demanding and winning referenda - especially if the inevitable disaster Cameron & co keep making up doesn't in fact happen. Finally if we vote to stay the UK will be liberated to be more pro-EU by finally ending the 'we haven't been asked' issue about sovereignty - I don't think this should be underestimated in the longer term and it's a reason for another curse on Blair for not asking the question when the going was far better.

I can't argue with that.

UK politics will get very heady if there's a leave win. Almost totally unpredictable as to what will happen next with much depending on what the EU does, also margin of victory and the market reaction here and in Europe. The rhetoric and reality is going to be transformed.

Cameron is total toast unless he can reverse the decision - will go down in history as a disastrous nincompoop alongside Neville Chamberlain. It will be far more deserving in Cameron's case.

The economic argument isn't working because millions of people don't care about GDP when its they are who are being sacrificed at its altar to prop it up all the while being the punching bag for the snobby delusional middle class champagne socialists

They might be of lesser intelligence in general as Jalfrezi and others have excitedly claimed but many perhaps are not so dense to be able to understand the adverse effects to themselves and their community that an endless dispensable stream of competing labour is