I lolled you into voting? Awesome.

@NixonQuote: Pretty sure that's a Trump philosophy too.

...unless your lawyer thinks you're guilty, in which case you have to lie against an honorable guy who's under oath, whoops.

Obviously emailz is bigger than both

Benghazi

The bigger scandal is all the "mysterious" murders surrounding the Clintons. Gotta give em that they are good at getting rid of evidences.

http://i.imgur.com/xYfSIAs.jpg

I guess it's not as big of a deal as Trump's typos on twitter. Who cares about Seth Rich did you see Trump just wrote covfefe what an idiot.

Yeah, we're all going to blindly trust the source "Hillary Clinton 411."

lmao whatabout hillary. it's been 6 months bro when are you gonna move on and accept donald trump is president?

Has Trump tweeted anything about Seth Rich? Seems crazy that their is a conspiracy theory out there too dumb for even Donny.

I think it's a tough comparison because we had a resolution / closure of Watergate and the current investigation is still underway. Additionally many posters here weren't alive / old enough to appreciate the gravity of Watergate and only read about it in history books (myself included) whereas we're currently living through the current ongoing investigation. I think it'd be tough to get a truly objective poll on this matter / which issue is bigger.

Watergate barely gets in the top three Nixon scandals in terms of badness.

Scuttling an early end to the Vietnam war is probably treason, certainly illegal, and cost many Americans and non-Americans lives.

Then his big one is creating the drug war just to undermine the left and minorities which has destroyed countless lives, killed countless people, and cost countless billions.

Given these two were essentially unknown secrets until recently **** knows what is worst. It ain't Watergate for sure and probably isn't the Trump campaign coordinating with Russia. As for obstruction of justice that is just dumb being dumb doing dumb.

If you mean big scandal like mass of coverage then trump probably wins (skipping how all scandals are stupidly named after Watergate) but its fairly pedestrian short of a huge conspiracy of his entire top team with a full plan to enrich themselves and sell out the country to Russia and there are tapes of it or Jared turns states for immunity or whatever. Its probably just going to go down in history as a bunch of cowards and conmen out of their depth.

Yeah, a lot of recency bias here. Watergate was HUGE. You had a president (generally considered to be a master politician) who went from an essentially complete electoral mandate (49 of 50 states) to out of office in just over 2 years along with the criminal convictions of pretty much his entire administrative staff. So far we have one half-bright national security advisor pitched overboard by his idiot owner. It may (and probably will) get much bigger, but for now, settle down.

MM MD

I'm surprised at the poll results so far. 2/3 vs 1/3 is definitely a higher 2nd (Watergate) number than I thought it would be in this forum.

true about most of the folks on this site learning about watergate thru books. i would almost wager that half the folks who voted would know who committed the crimes

I did say I voted sarcastically

Subversion of the highest levels of the national security apparatus by foreign powers! That's a much bigger scandal than some obstruction charges.

If and when this is found to be true, I agree. (And it probably will be).

But the incessant "OMG this is the best/worst/biggest whateverthe****itis" over and over and over isn't the best way to approach these things.

MM MD

Flynn has confirmed that he was acting as an agent of the Turkish government, while he was involved with the Trump campaign, even though he improperly concealed that relationship. He is also known to have intervened in national security matters (specifically, operations against ISIS in Raqqa) to promote decisions that were in Turkey's best interests. This is all known to be true now! You are right that there is probably much worse stuff around involving Russia, Saudi Arabia and others, but what's already known is a scandal much worse than Watergate.

This is the kind of thing that supporters who don't bother to learn any details about negative Trump stories say.

You should look at a list of confirmed facts about Trump's activities as president. Don't just rely on memory. You would be just as shook as we are.

The media isn't repeating stories over and over again. There are a few main storylines, with new facts being confirmed daily, even hourly at times.

One other thing: It's hard to find independently confirmed President Trump stories that are positive. The credibility of this administration has gotten so bad that anything they say has to be fact checked. I mean, even the covfefe typo was a secret code word that a small group of people understood the meaning of. They hardly respond to questions anymore out of fear that the answers might incriminate themselves or others around them.

And it's been less than 5 months. How long did it take the Nixon WH to get to this point?

Don't confuse me with a Trump supporter. I think he's going to get run out of office and richly deserves it, sooner rather than later (with the caveat that I'm not enthused about a Pence presidency - he's more likely to accomplish a number of the more malignant GOP goals than our beloved president, simply on the grounds that he's not a ****ing idiot)

But having a bit of patience and letting things play out is generally best. There have been a few rush-to-judgement events in the near past that would have benefited from a more measured approach.

MM MD

If you think the system is just going to magically take care of Trump, you aren't paying attention. Our institutions are failing at an incredibly rapid rate. Pride cometh before the fall.

I disagree. The system is absolutely going to take care of Trump, for the selfish reason that he is not of the system. I don't believe the sky is falling, even if you do. AFAIK, the Supreme Court is still open for business, The dems haven't folded up shop. The military seems stable - not like I'm worried about a coup.

"You should look at a list of confirmed facts about Trump's activities as president. Don't just rely on memory. You would be just as shook as we are."

His activities have been for the most part bloviating about **** he can't do anything about and embarrass himself repeatedly. The Senate looks to be unable to do anything in terms of health care any more than the House - it's going nowhere. His wall is going nowhere. His travel blockade is going nowhere. His Russian adventures are going nowhere, and may lead to his impeachment. He's been active, in the sense that a hyperactive kid running around screaming is active.

Things aren't great. They've been not great before. Nixon won 49 states and was out of office 2 years later. Trump luckboxed an election when the dems managed to find the one high level politico that he could beat and run her. He's pathetically unable to do the job, and it's becoming more obvious daily. (Yet another whacking of his immigration nonsense today)

This will pass.

MM MD

We may get through this, but it won't be because we sat idly by and waited for the system to fix this. The Republican Senate will never vote to remove him. This kind of attitude that everything will take care of itself and our democracy is unbreakable is exactly what got us to this point, and it's exactly what might throw us right off the cliff.

Did you not notice that the last Supreme Court seat was completely stolen? And yet there were no consequences. Our institutions are failing us, people. The Supreme Court seat was completely stolen and the people have no recourse. The Republican party wins by attacking peoples' right to vote and be alive. Police are letting white supremacist paramilitary groups help them arrest people at demonstrations. The Electoral College, another institution that was supposed to save us, balked instead and became a rubber stamp for a clearly incompetent and possibly foreign-compromised candidate. I won't say that this is hopeless because I believe there is hope, but to think everything is working out just fine is completely insane.

[QUOTE=einbert;52372543] The Republican Senate will never vote to remove him.

They'll dump him in a heartbeat the minute it's expedient to do so, for purely political reasons. He's not any sort of republican, anyway. He has no reservoir of good will or past relationships with any of those pols. Pence would be a different story, but he's way too smart politically to put himself in that position. Trump can't help himself.

So we'll have to see.

MM MD