Wut. The use of "brain" here is pretty clearly shorthand for "my internal self-image"

I believe the most current thinking is that gender dysphoria is separate from trans issues, as in gender dysphoria is still a real thing but it's only used to describe a fraction of trans people, as there are other factors to consider when making a diagnosis aside from "this person is trans".

I'm scared to even hint at the interesting scientific aspects concerning gender as people might twist them and use them for their personal prejudices.

I'm assuming WheelGunner didn't end his post with something like, "but you should still love and respect the person." I mean, I'm guessing he wouldn't disown and disparage a loved one that suffered from an actual mental illness, so when he says being trans is a mental illness he's obviously bastardizing some scientific factoid he vaguely remembers from somewhere to further his agenda.

Bottom line is you love and respect the person, and deal with whatever issues you have on your own time, it seems obvious.


p.s. The poor kid herself said the same thing:

I always think of the line in Pulp Fiction, where Tarantino's character says, "There's nothing you can say that's going to make me forget I love my wife." It's like, if you need to tell yourself that in the mirror every day until it sticks then do it.

This is a ridiculous comment. There are very clear and well established differences between male and female brains in humans, as in other mammals. There are gross anatomical differences, from as crude as mean cerebral mass, to refined differences in very local aspects of neuroanatomy. In some cases the differences are well understood, in most they are not (simply because the operational consequences of neuranatomical features are, speaking overbroadly, still not well understood). Pretending two things are the same when they are not, in addition to being unscientific, complicates the social issues. That women should have same opportunities as men, the same rights, etc. does not mean that women and men are the same. They obviously are not, and policies designed to achieve their social equality have to take into account their physical inequality.

The thing lies at the root of the problems regarding transgender persons. Those born with chromosomes such that they are neither clearly male nor female don't fit neatly into the usual conceptions, nor does their behavior necessarily correspond with that expected by others based on their superficial anatomy. The widespread ignorance about their very real physical differences from those with a clearly determined gender is part of the problem with getting the society at large to accomodate them adequately. There are cultures which conceptualize a third gender, and in some sense this is more rational than pretending everyone is A or B. But pretending everyone is A is just ridiculous.

I think it's because people notice small details that betray a bigger picture, and it seems to be a recurring theme.

In regards to my above post about forgetting you love your own ****ing child, it's kinda wtf.

Hi. In general transgender isn't about chromosomes. The vast majority are clearly born with either completely male or female DNA. It's just that they feel that their body doesn't match up with their gender.

You might be thinking of intersex, which is often a chromosome issue.

Also, third gender is a very broad term, used in a lot of ways by different cultures. In the Philippines it is generally synonymous with "gay" and in many others is a specific reference to a very cultural specific identity, rather than a reference to intersex.

I was using "my brain is male" as a stand in for "I think and feel like a boy".
Sorry for the confusion.

This, JFC. Even if it's a mental illness, there's no reason you:

* can't use the pronoun/name that person actually wants you to use when referring to him/her
* should stop loving that person
* (assuming you still love the person) should think bullying the person is actually going to be helpful

Of course you can be charged if you bully someone until they commit suicide. Especially if you're an adult and the victim a minor. Especially if you have a position of authority over the victim. Especially if youre, say, their parents.

The parents dont need to be 100% at fault. There's no doubt in any reasonable persons mind that their abuse was a major contributing factor in what transpired.

Edit: I assume using the wrong pronoun was just a second language mistake.

No the parents shouldn't be charged - what laws did they break? Trying to raise their child in the best way they saw fit?

It appears some people ITT want to have a say in how a parent raises their children - that's a slippery slope I don't think we should be going down.

Weren't you the guy who quoted a white supremacist a day or two ago to make an argument for you?

We already don't let parents abuse their children. Framing this as a parenting choice is some ignorant ass bull****.

Pretty sure we've been on that slope for quite some time now.

Aren't you the guy that shouts white supremacist at everyone who doesn't share your view on racism? Can we stick to the topic of this thread or is that too difficult for you?

Abuse as defined by law yes, physical etc. Sending a child to therapy (for whatever reason) can't be defined as abuse.

How is it NOT a parenting choice??

Conversion "therapy" isn't really therapy, despite the word being present. I know it's tricky to understand, but you'll get there eventually.

Oh, it's definitely not related to this thread, I'm just trying to remember if it was you or someone else who skulked off for a couple days, hoping no one would remember.

Pretty sure it must have been you, or you wouldn't have reacted this way.

If the parent believes it to be therapy and the parent believes that it is best for their child, how can one twist that into child abuse?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_abuse

Because a persons beliefs don't determine reality. If a parent sincerely believes raping their child builds moral character that doesn't stop it being abuse.

Are you in the camp that wants to allow parents to send their kids to any one who calls themselves a therapist/doctor etc or would you recognise that there is a legitimate role for the law in regulating who can practice and in enforcing rules of conduct?

Also do you think parents have some responsibility to seek appropriate professional help from a doctor if they are sick? If so can't we extend that to therapists if they are in distress.

In the past it was white supremacy. Today it is PC supremacy.

Then charge the people preforming the fake therapy.

Some states have banned the, for lack of a better word so please don't get confused by it stockguy, practice

Parents do not own their children, and we have no problem "having a say" in how parents are raising their kids when parents are substance-abusers, physically abusive, etc.

Rape is a crime - that's the obvious difference there. You can charge someone for rape.

I'm in the camp that parents should be allowed to raise their children how they see fit. This case is no different imo.

Also - if the "therapist" is religious based and church has designated that person as a therapist wouldn't there be a separation of church and state issue?

This

Yes - in those instances the children are in physical danger (which is easy to quantify). How can you quantify psychological danger caused by the parent? Are we going to charge all parents with "mental abuse" if every child that commits suicide "blames" the parents?