Another tragic death of a transgender teen, should the parents be charged? - Page 2 - Politics and Economics

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Another tragic death of a transgender teen, should the parents be charged?

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01-01-2015 , 05:16 PM

#26

Strike-3

banned

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 497

All moral issues, opinions and what not aside the title of this thread doesn't make sense. The kid committed suicide and the parents gets charged? That is just a flawed thought.... I don't even doubt they are rotten people but still - there is no way this adds up.

01-01-2015 , 05:17 PM

#27

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil318466

Personally I think I'd be fine with a homosexual child. I've never really thought about a transgender child, though. I think I would love the child, but I honestly couldn't say if I'd be able to handle it. In fact, I don't even know what the situation entails. Changing clothes, hair, name, pronouns, etc.

A friend of a friend came out as wanting to have a sex change to a woman, but still wanted to date women. It was brought up at dinner, and everyone at the table was sort of confused. The person who told the story actually said the person's father told him "I wish he was just gay, it'd be so much easier".

Like I said, I think this is more difficult than it appears on the surface.

Yeah it sounds really awful, you aren't sure which pronoun to use, just a terrible tragedy. Clearly the parent really is the victim in this tragedy.

what the actual ****, man?

01-01-2015 , 05:19 PM

#28

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strike-3

"man, that sucks, but hey, the kid committed suicide, so let's just throw our hands up, what can we do, the kid killed herself, clearly everything that happened before that moment should just be ignored."

nice, really nice, man.

01-01-2015 , 05:19 PM

#29

PFunkaliscious

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 3,061

Quote:

Originally Posted by spanktehbadwookie

"Conversion therapists" who have a counseling licence are frauds who should lose their license.

so what should happen to this Dr. John Money?

"In 1966, a botched circumcision left eight-month-old David Reimer without a penis. Partly based on Money's recommendation, fourteen months later Reimer was reassigned as female by having his testes removed and being renamed Brenda. Money further recommended hormone treatment, which was done, and surgical creation of a vagina, which was not done. Money published a number of papers reporting the reassignment as successful.
In 1997, Milton Diamond reported that the reassignment had failed, that Reimer had never identified as female or behaved in a typically feminine manner, having switched from female to male hormone treatments and taken a male name (David) as a teenager.[1] Allegations were made that Money had falsified research, while Money's defenders responded that he had only seen Reimer once a year for much of the time Money was involved in the case, had no contact at all with the Reimer family after about 1978, and that during the annual visits the Reimer family had lied to lab staff about the child's progress.
In 2000, David and his twin brother (Brian) alleged that Dr. Money had taken numerous naked photos of the twins during their treatment and had forced them to engage in "sexual play" at age 7. In 2002, David's twin brother was found dead from an overdose of the drugs used to treat his schizophrenia. On 5 May 2004, shortly after being asked by his wife for a separation, Reimer committed suicide. Reimer's parents have stated that they believe Dr. Money's methodology was responsible for the deaths of both of their sons"

01-01-2015 , 05:24 PM

#30

Merlin's Pants

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 622

Wil, your daughter comes to you and says, "Dad, I'm a boy. I know I have girl parts, but my brain is a boy's brain. I want to start transitioning. I'm going to bind my breasts, cut my hair short. At some point, I would like to start taking hormones to help me grow facial hair and make my outside more closely match my brain."

Your response is, "yea, but what do I call you!?"

01-01-2015 , 05:25 PM

#31

Strike-3

banned

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 497

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

What would the charge be? Christ I didn't defend them but WTF would you charge them with?

01-01-2015 , 05:26 PM

#32

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

BTW if you're not sure how well you would handle your kid having this struggle then for everyone else's sake you should just not be a parent at all.

01-01-2015 , 05:26 PM

#33

wil318466

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19,154

Quote:

Originally Posted by problemeliminator

Is divorce considered child abuse? No, never. Glad we cleared that up.

Why is that confusing?

This is a really horrible comparison. These two things arent in the same ballpark. They're not even the same ****ing sport.

What if you could picture a situation where the one parent would get custody, and the other parent knows that it would be detrimental to the child if that were to occur? Would you say the same thing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by zikzak

jfc wil

Your biggest concern if your child has gender identity issues is yourself? This girl was so traumatized by how her parents and society treated her that she threw herself in front of a truck. Your reaction is, "Yeah, but what about MY feelings?" You've just managed to hit a new low, and that's really saying something.

You really need to grow up and get your opinion of me off the whine and cry tip. God you sound like a whiny little dramatic bitch. That's not what I was saying at all.

Christ you just be the biggest drama queen in the world.

01-01-2015 , 05:27 PM

#34

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strike-3

What would the charge be? Christ I didn't defend them but WTF would you charge them with?

there's a pattern of abusive behavior stretching over several years. They are child abusers.

01-01-2015 , 05:30 PM

#35

wil318466

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19,154

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin's Pants

I've never thought of this scenario in depth. Yeah, I'd be confused. If you want me to pretend I'd know how I'd react, I can't. I think I'd be ok with it but I'm unsure.

01-01-2015 , 05:35 PM

#36

spanktehbadwookie

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19,374

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFunkaliscious

so what should happen to this Dr. John Money?

Whatever should happen to Dr. Money, I was using the term " conversion therapy" to describe the practice with a "treatment" goal of persuading a person to conform to a personal identity other than their own, usually through a process which superficially resembles talk therapy.

01-01-2015 , 05:48 PM

#37

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil318466

I've never thought of this scenario in depth. Yeah, I'd be confused. If you want me to pretend I'd know how I'd react, I can't. I think I'd be ok with it but I'm unsure.

Being confused is fine, of course people are confused by this type of thing, but guess what, nobody really gives a **** about your confusion in this type of situation. But if you're not sure how you would actually treat your own child then you would be doing us all a favor if you just remained childless.

Stop making everything about you.

01-01-2015 , 05:56 PM

#38

zikzak

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 22,198

Don't be such a drama queen, pvn. It was just a 17 year old girl emotionally tortured by her own parents to the point where she literally stepped in front of a truck to kill herself. The real issue here is which pronouns wil is going to use.

01-01-2015 , 06:05 PM

#39

wil318466

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19,154

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvn

But that's my point. When you say "of course people are confused by this type of thing" you acknowledge it might not be something that is easily understood.

Of course, that doesn't make the parent wrong about their reaction. So yeah, I agree.

01-01-2015 , 06:05 PM

#40

wil318466

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19,154

Quote:

Originally Posted by zikzak

I know drag shows you'd get kicked out of zikzak.

01-01-2015 , 06:06 PM

#41

Merlin's Pants

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 622

Wil, if your daughter one day tells you she has the brain of a boy. You use male pronouns, or, conversely, you ask him what he wants to be called. Usually, someone transitioning chooses a new name from the opposite gender, and you use that as his new name.

That's easy peasy.

You do what these parents did.

Your child is a human being, even if you lack unconditional love, even if you can't get over your freak-out because you're not okay with trans people, you treat your child with kindness and dignity because that's what they deserve.

01-01-2015 , 06:08 PM

#42

LBloom

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 239

I used to know a transgender person (born male, felt female) named Kit. Me and my other friends called her "Kit." And I readily admit I don't understand this type of thing at all.

01-01-2015 , 06:12 PM

#43

pvn

Guest

Posts: n/a

Yeah, I mean, the idea of referring to a person in a manner that they would like you to refer to them just has wil SO ****ING CONFUSED WHY IS MY KID MAKING MY LIFE SO HARD

01-01-2015 , 06:12 PM

#44

zikzak

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 22,198

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil318466

I know drag shows you'd get kicked out of zikzak.

And right on schedule, "You don't know".

01-01-2015 , 06:21 PM

#45

wil318466

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 19,154

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin's Pants

And I agree. I think that's a wonderful thing. I'm all for people being accepted for what they are, even if I don't understand it.

01-01-2015 , 06:22 PM

#46

campfirewest

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,940

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin's Pants

If the Dad commits suicide after this convo can we charge the kid?

01-01-2015 , 07:18 PM

#47

rjoefish

Got Out the Vote

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 31,086

This must be the really-stupid-and-not-at-all-analogous hypothetical thread.

01-01-2015 , 07:47 PM

#48

2/325Falcon

Conehead

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 21,907

Oh look, a ****ty thread. Also, I sexually identify as Kryptonian and want you all to start calling me Superman tia.

01-01-2015 , 07:59 PM

#49

rugby

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 4,672

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjoefish

This must be the really-stupid-and-not-at-all-analogous hypothetical thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2/325Falcon

Oh look, a ****ty thread. Also, I sexually identify as Kryptonian and want you all to start calling me Superman tia.

Confirmed

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using 2+2 Forums

01-01-2015 , 08:21 PM

#50

[Phill]

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 52,717

Quote:

Originally Posted by wil318466

This is more complicated than people think. Not all parents have an unconditional love clause when it comes to having a child. I think people have grandiose ideas about how far love goes for other people.

People (parents) are obviously allowed to believe what they want. Some people believe gay/transgender isn't a natural condition, it's learned. I think that's ridiculous but I can't make another person believe the same thing.

Many people would scoff at the idea of staying in an unhappy marriage for the sake of a child, yet if they had issues with their child being transgender, they question the parent. What if the parents wanted to separate because of that unhappy marriage but they knew for a fact it would hurt the status of the child? Would that be considered abuse?

Personally I think I'd be fine with a homosexual child. I've never really thought about a transgender child, though. I think I would love the child, but I honestly couldn't say if I'd be able to handle it. In fact, I don't even know what the situation entails. Changing clothes, hair, name, pronouns, etc.

A friend of a friend came out as wanting to have a sex change to a woman, but still wanted to date women. It was brought up at dinner, and everyone at the table was sort of confused. The person who told the story actually said the person's father told him "I wish he was just gay, it'd be so much easier".

Like I said, I think this is more difficult than it appears on the surface.

She is gay, glad I just cleared up the confusion for you and your ignorant friends, happy to help.

Also it's super weird that you don't know if you would love your child if he or she wanted to transition to she or he.

It just isn't difficult for open minded people. Like, at all.

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