Quote:
Originally Posted by DrModern
I just meant that the fact that ACism is basically dead now is a sign of progress within the forum.
I also think you're unfairly downplaying the quality of the discussion here (26k posts, hm). We've had long threads complaining about how miserable it is to try talking politics with relatives over the holidays and such. While that's a common trope in American political discourse at large, the implied theme of those threads always seems to be that, well, at least here I can speak my mind (even if I have to contend with ACtarding, Paulbots like Taso, and pvn posting the lolque pear as though that's contributing something, love ya boo). Sure, there's a homogeneity of perspective, but it's better than you're suggesting, I think.
I mean, sure, I have smart friends who are, like, professors and grad students and such with whom I enjoy discussing politics (side note: most of them are women). I have friends who are just regular ladies and gents with whom I enjoy discussing it too. I also read a lot of political theory, political history, and flat-out polemic, plus a ton of political coverage in newspapers and magazines. That stuff--plus my innate sense of "having good values"--ultimately has a bigger impact on my worldview, but I won't pretend that discussions here haven't influenced it as well.
Like, yeah, it's entertainment, but a pretty high-brow kind.
Right, I get it. It is entertaining. I don't even deny you can learn some things here. I only mean to say -- and I think you ultimately agree -- that there are far better ways to learn about the world than relying on a message board to inform. I think it's akin to learning about history from The History Channel -- like yeah, maybe at 3am you'll catch that Modern Marvels episode about the Secrets of Oil and how olive oil cultivation the Persians and later the Greeks to dominate the near east with trade along with military might. And you're still, in the end, consuming a vastly inferior medium than even a mediocre book on the subject. And you're wading through hours and hours of American Pickers and Swamp People and UFO conspiracy theories and **** to get to the good stuff. The forums are sort of like that: yeah, you can learn things here, in a way that is ultimately mixed in with tons of nonsense and largely inferior to better ways to consume information.
There are some unfortunate downstream, almost embarassing consequences too -- remember that in the infamous How Libertarians Make Friends with Their Positions on the Civil War thread, it turned out like most of the resident ACist and libertarians had
never even read Rothbard or knew much of what he wrote. That's one part astounding, one part wholly unsurprising, but lastly, one part galling: we're conversing with these people for *years* who have strident opinions about the world that aren't even bothering to pick up and read the guy whose thoughts, principles and philosophies more or less formed the core of what they claimed to believe.
You might say a lot about the evolution of people from whatever, something to ACism to something else and how it represents progress. I'd call it something else; when lots of people embrace positions they didn't even bother to learn the basics of, defend it vociferously before eventually pivoting away -- I'm not sure we want to call that progress. It's something alright, but it's a curious form of progress.
Note again I'm not really talking about you at all, if that matters. Just holistically the whole ACist phenomenon was striking but hardly represented some kind of beneficial evolution that speaks to the quality of the forum. Yet again I'd say it speaks directly to the heart of the people who post here (largely white, largely wealthy, likely toting around a decent to high level of education, pre-disposed to participation on internet forums and arguing). To lay my cards on the table, I'm closer to the Trolly position here: this strikes me a lot like the evolution of a typical Aspergers guy...highly detailed almost preternatural focus on a topic where they actually possess very little formal credentials or knowledge but aggressively argue for its correctness and stubbornly defend it. Possibly offensive, I know, but when you look around and see a bunch of nerdy dudes with 25k posts (myself included!) and they're mostly creatures of the internet and they clearly don't know THAT much, argue strongly, and rate themselves highly with little to no outside credentialing or respect, you're basically in canonical Aspergers territory.