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Old 04-13-2017, 09:16 AM   #326
Our House
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Re: America Going to War with Syria!

"How do you fight against fake videos? These videos come out on the internet showing children, but how do we know they were really dead? And then it's up to us to disprove these fake videos. 100% fabrication."

EDIT: Paraphrasing from TV.
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Old 04-13-2017, 09:18 AM   #327
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Re: America Going to War with Syria!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Our House View Post
"How do you fight against fake videos? These videos come out on the internet showing children, but how do we know they were really dead? And then it's up to us to disprove these fake videos. 100% fabrication."
wasn't that a part of the #syriahoax? look at this dead kid who's eyes just opened?
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Old 04-13-2017, 10:02 AM   #328
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Re: America Going to War with Syria!

Quote:
Assad: Chemical attacks '100 percent fabrication'

Syrian President Bashar Assad on Wednesday insisted his regime was not involved in a deadly chemical weapons attack in northern Syria last week, saying the accusations were completely fabricated.

"Definitely, 100 percent for us, it's fabrication," Assad told Agence France Presse in an interview. "Our impression is that the West, mainly the United States, is hand-in-glove with the terrorists. They fabricated the whole story in order to have a pretext for the attack."
http://thehill.com/policy/internatio...-a-fabrication
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Old 04-13-2017, 10:53 AM   #329
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Re: America Going to War with Syria!

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Originally Posted by revots33 View Post
Tulsi Gabbard and HastenDan approve.
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:04 PM   #330
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Re: America Going to War with Syria!

I think we can safely change this to "America Going To War With The Middle East"

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/13/po...omb/index.html
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:17 PM   #331
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Re: America Going to War with Syria!

Yeah, Trumpler really seems to be spreading our military thin. Let's see how many engagements we can handle at one time!
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:18 PM   #332
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Re: America Going to War with Syria!

Putin's goal IMO.
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Old 04-13-2017, 03:40 PM   #333
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Re: America Going to War with Syria!

It was also bin Laden's stated goal.
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Old 04-13-2017, 04:44 PM   #334
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Re: America Going to War with Syria!

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Originally Posted by otatop View Post
It was also bin Laden's stated goal.
No it wasn't.

From his 1998 fatwa

"The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. "

Unless getting America deeper into the war is a step towards this (which would be 5D chess or some **** like that).
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Old 04-13-2017, 04:51 PM   #335
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Re: America Going to War with Syria!

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Originally Posted by SuperUberBob View Post
No it wasn't.

From his 1998 fatwa

"The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. "

Unless getting America deeper into the war is a step towards this (which would be 5D chess or some **** like that).
He explicit said his goal was to bait America to send troops around the world to fight costly wars, which would ultimately bankrupt us, at which point we would be forced to retreat in shame (just like they did to the Russians in Afghanistan):

http://www.aljazeera.com/archive/200...336457223.html

"All that we have mentioned has made it easy for us to provoke and bait this administration. All that we have to do is to send two mujahidin to the furthest point east to raise a piece of cloth on which is written al-Qaida, in order to make the generals race there to cause America to suffer human, economic, and political losses without their achieving for it anything of note other than some benefits for their private companies.

This is in addition to our having experience in using guerrilla warfare and the war of attrition to fight tyrannical superpowers, as we, alongside the mujahidin, bled Russia for 10 years, until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat.

All Praise is due to Allah.

So we are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy."
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Old 04-13-2017, 10:05 PM   #336
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Re: America Going to War with Syria!

As much as it's played up that Osama was a strategic mastermind, he really didn't think the US would fully commit to Afghanistan and he would have died in Tora Bora if Bush and Cheney weren't pussy footing the invasion and depended on unreliable natives to be their infantry on the ground. He then ended up holed up in a compound sending out missives once a year or so while Al Qaeda left him behind and he became irrelevant.
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:35 AM   #337
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Re: America Going to War with Syria!

Russia, Syria and Iran just issued a warning to the US that any more military action in Syria will be met with "grave consequences." Wonderful news, because threatening Trump is always a good step toward peace and stability.
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:40 AM   #338
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Re: America Going to War with Syria!

If IS decides to gass some Syrian civilians and make it look like Assad did it that could really set of some fireworks. It would be a really good strategic move for IS
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:48 AM   #339
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Re: America Going to War with Syria!

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If IS decides to gass some Syrian civilians and make it look like Assad did it
This was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the story.
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Old 04-14-2017, 12:59 PM   #340
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Re: America Going to War with Syria!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
As much as it's played up that Osama was a strategic mastermind, he really didn't think the US would fully commit to Afghanistan and he would have died in Tora Bora if Bush and Cheney weren't pussy footing the invasion and depended on unreliable natives to be their infantry on the ground. He then ended up holed up in a compound sending out missives once a year or so while Al Qaeda left him behind and he became irrelevant.
You bought into the bull**** about Al Quaeda being some transnational powerhouse.

There's never been any evidence of Bin Laden controlling more than a personal bodyguard of more than a few dozen fighters.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:06 AM   #341
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Re: America Going to War with Syria!

Bump. Surprise, the war is with Russia!

EDIT: From the Trump thread:

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet View Post
Russia/Syria are trying to set/limit the border of the Democratic Confederation of Northern Syria at the Euphrates imo. This attack was just on the west/south side of the river.
Assuming this is true, kind of appalling mismanagement of the conflict by the US. Here is a (fantastic) map of the conflict. If the context is that SDF is pushing across the Euphrates into regime-held territory, what could possibly justify shooting down Syrian aircraft resisting that attack. One possibility is that the US has somehow conscripted itself as the air arm of the SDF, whatever it may be doing, which is stupid. Another is that there were U.S. personnel with the SDF forces under attack, which I would say is more plausible, but suggests that we have boots on the ground fighting the Syrian government on the front lines, which is certainly news to me. The other possibility is that SDF actually took the territory in question from ISIS and is now defensively fighting the regime, which maybe all makes sense, but certainly highlights some long-term questions about what the goals of U.S. military intervention are. Is there some political settlement we're trying to impose, or are we just hanging around bombing whoever annoys us most in the moment?

Last edited by bobman0330; 06-19-2017 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:32 AM   #342
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Re: America Going to War with Syria!

We've had boots on the ground in Syria; around Manbij (west of the Euphrates) and right on the border with Turkey.

SDF is already across the Euphrates to some degree in Kurdish neighborhoods in Aleppo.

Syria and Russia have worked with or at least coexisted alongside the SDF as well. My conjecture here is that this is a move by Syria and Russia to define borders rather than expand the conflict. On the US side I think it's less strategic and more just a response to the one attack.

We have been giving air support to the SDF for a while. I think it could just be that, but there could also easily be a small number of US special forces or something along with them coordinating air strikes or something.

https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.re.../idUSKBN16D29G

Things could go a lot of directions from here including negotiated settlement. I wonder if the Syrian regime can really govern Aleppo after what it did there. Maybe. There are stories about people coming back to regime controlled areas.

(Paragraphs messed up and link sucks, but it's a pia to fix on my phone and I gotta go. )
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:43 AM   #343
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Re: America Going to War with Syria!

As far as who we have been engaging on the ground, I suspect we are at least trying to fight ISIS although I expect we have quite often not really known what group we engage and "ISIS" ends up getting applied to different groups. And it's a very foggy war, so engagements with Syrian regulars probably happens too.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:59 AM   #344
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Re: America Going to War with Syria!

I don't know what's going on, and in general I agree that Russia/SAA are currently trying to limit the SDF advance. However I do think it's possible the US has intentions of its own.

One thing the SAA may be trying to do by taking the ground south of Raqqa is make sure they're the ones in best position to re-take / relieve Deir-ez Zor when the time comes. The stuff going on around Tanf in the last few weeks, where there were clashes between US backed rebels and Regime forces, seemed to be as much about staging to get there as well (though from the South) as about controlling the border with Iraq too. The US bombed some Regime forces who responded by taking a strip of territory further away and to the north of them - which had the effect that a push South under Raqqa would have, to own the border with ISIS and so be the people in place to then push further.

Blocking the advance South therefore might be important to the US (The SDF isn't involved around Tanf). It's difficult to say for certain, but you can follow events over time on the site bobman posted and it does suggest the SAA was advancing against ISIS South of the SDF front line and there was a decision by the SDF / US to intervene. There was also an article last week about people that Flynn appointed still being around and arguing for attacking Regime forces (as Iran proxies), and that's another possible explanation. I'd say it's safe to assume the US definitely does have a political agenda.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/16/...on-objections/
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:49 PM   #345
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Re: America Going to War with Syria!

It's easy to look at the small picture and forget that Iran, Saudi Arabia, Israel have interests as well as the US, Syria, Russia, SDF, Iraqi Kurds, Turkey and all the relationships between everyone and there being many groups receiving support from a lot of different places.
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Old Today, 05:11 AM   #346
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Re: America Going to War with Syria!

Something from the Washington Post about possible US intentions in Syria:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...876_story.html
Quote:
Trump administration officials, anticipating the defeat of the Islamic State in its de facto Syrian capital of Raqqa, are planning for what they see as the next stage of the war, a complex fight that will bring them into direct conflict with Syrian government and Iranian forces contesting control of a vast desert stretch in the eastern part of the country.
Quote:
As regime and militia forces have begun advancing eastward, senior White House officials have been pushing the Pentagon to establish outposts in the desert region. The goal would be to prevent a Syrian or Iranian military presence that would interfere with the U.S. military’s ability to break the Islamic State’s hold on the Euphrates River valley south of Raqqa and into Iraq — a sparsely populated area where the militants could regroup and continue to plan terrorist operations against the West.

Officials said Syrian government claims on the area would also undermine progress toward a political settlement in the long-separate rebel war against Assad, intended to stabilize the country by limiting his control and eventually driving him from power.
Quote:
The wisdom and need for such a strategy — effectively inserting the United States in Syria’s civil war, after years of trying to stay out of it, and risking direct confrontation with Iran and Russia, Assad’s other main backer — has been a subject of intense debate between the White House and the Pentagon.
Quote:
One White House official, among several who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss Syria planning, dismissed such concerns, saying: “If you’re worried that any incident anywhere could cause Iran to take advantage of vulnerable U.S. forces . . . if you don’t think America has real interests that are worth fighting for, then fine.”
The area they're talking about is exactly the area it seemed as if the SDF and US backed rebels were trying to block the SAA from staging for. That area is certainly the area ISIS will retreat to, so going there is a logical continuance of the fight against them. The problem is it's also an area Regime aligned forces are actively contesting, and very unlikely to back down in. Guess we just have to hope the Trump regime has the strategic and diplomatic chops to navigate it all wisely.
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Old Today, 05:36 AM   #347
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Re: America Going to War with Syria!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyA View Post
He explicit said his goal was to bait America to send troops around the world to fight costly wars, which would ultimately bankrupt us, at which point we would be forced to retreat in shame (just like they did to the Russians in Afghanistan):

http://www.aljazeera.com/archive/200...336457223.html

"All that we have mentioned has made it easy for us to provoke and bait this administration. All that we have to do is to send two mujahidin to the furthest point east to raise a piece of cloth on which is written al-Qaida, in order to make the generals race there to cause America to suffer human, economic, and political losses without their achieving for it anything of note other than some benefits for their private companies.

This is in addition to our having experience in using guerrilla warfare and the war of attrition to fight tyrannical superpowers, as we, alongside the mujahidin, bled Russia for 10 years, until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat.

All Praise is due to Allah.

So we are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy."
Clearly the do not understand the American economy.
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