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06-17-2009, 02:51 PM
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#136
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ann Arbor
Posts: 18,593
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Re: ABCNEWS to promote Obamacare directly -- has it really gotten this bad?
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Originally Posted by bobman0330
But there's a difference between an interview with a professional interviewer and a town hall where Obama gives a speech and takes audience questions. Audience questions will always be dumb, because most randoms are dumb and haven't extensively prepped. That's the reason we have professional journalists.
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Which professional interviewer do we expect to not lob Obama softballs he hasn't extensively prepped for? I mean have you watched David Gregory host MTP? An actual David Gregory quote, about why he didn't press President Bush further during the Iraq War leadup when he was NBC's White House Corespondent with briefing room access:
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I think there are a lot of critics who think that . . . . if we did not stand up and say this is bogus, and you're a liar, and why are you doing this, that we didn't do our job. I respectfully disagree. It's not our role.
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That's the professional journalist who hosts the most esteemed "tough interview" show in the country. Even Russert, king of the "zomg gotcha" question, the paradigm of the "tough interview", really wasn't all that confrontational by any reasonable standard.
If anything, I think town-halls are far more likely to produce a tough question than someone on the payroll of one of the networks. If the concern here is over privileged access -- that the Obama Admin will jerk around a network if they get too uppity in their questions -- ABC can easily excuse away tough questions from random anons as opposed to Charles Gibson or Cokie Roberts. Not that I think a tough question is at all likely in a town hall, either. But Wynton is right, you far overestimate the skill of the contemporary American journalist. At least the ones the networks typically trot out for a high profile Presidential interview.
Last edited by DVaut1; 06-17-2009 at 02:57 PM.
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06-17-2009, 02:56 PM
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#137
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centurion
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 155
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Re: ABCNEWS to promote Obamacare directly -- has it really gotten this bad?
I'm highly, highly, highly skeptical of the 950 billion in "savings" by this plan. I can't find where they get this number from...
Anyone have linkage?
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06-17-2009, 02:57 PM
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#138
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,838
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Re: ABCNEWS to promote Obamacare directly -- has it really gotten this bad?
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Originally Posted by iron81
You really couldn't or wouldn't craft a question to expose flaws in his plan?
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If I could have an opportunity to follow up when he gives his non-answer, sure. I would never be given the chance, so why bother?
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06-17-2009, 03:00 PM
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#139
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 23,390
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Re: ABCNEWS to promote Obamacare directly -- has it really gotten this bad?
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Originally Posted by bobman0330
This is definitely a "TV news is garbage" story and not an "Obama is a dictator" story though.
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False dichotomy?
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06-17-2009, 03:03 PM
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#140
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centurion
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 155
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Re: ABCNEWS to promote Obamacare directly -- has it really gotten this bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
That's the professional journalist who hosts the most esteemed "tough interview" show in the country. Even Russert, king of the "zomg gotcha" question, the paradigm of the "tough interview", really wasn't all that confrontational by any reasonable standard.
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No, I completely disagree. Russert was a very good interviewer who had no problem confronting his interviewees on their question dodging. He was also exceptional at follow up questions. His interviews with Bush in particular were very firm. (Though he always pulled off the friendly mannerisms)
Anyway, I totally disagree that the townhall style will produce tougher questions. For one, there's no room for followup typically, so the responder can just go into a canned response that doesn't pertain to the question.
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06-17-2009, 03:11 PM
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#141
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Confirmed TL Gimmick Acct
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Contacting SoCal Approach on 127.3
Posts: 23,120
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Re: ABCNEWS to promote Obamacare directly -- has it really gotten this bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by adios
Can you provide a linky that details how $950 billion is saved?
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No. Just because I listen to the press briefings doesn't mean I'm following this particular issue all that closely or even that I have an opinion on the merits of the plan at all.
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06-17-2009, 04:17 PM
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#142
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ann Arbor
Posts: 18,593
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Re: ABCNEWS to promote Obamacare directly -- has it really gotten this bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JrJr
Russert was a very good interviewer who had no problem confronting his interviewees on their question dodging. He was also exceptional at follow up questions. His interviews with Bush in particular were very firm. (Though he always pulled off the friendly mannerisms)
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I don't really want to turn this thread into a referendum on Russert. One, because he's dead and I'm sure he was a nice guy and all and no one wants to say a nice guy wasn't great at his job posthumously, and two, because it's not really relevant. But former VP Cheney's office thought Russert's show was it was a good place to "control message", ie, repeat talking points without challenge:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...501951_pf.html
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This delicious morsel about the "Meet the Press" host and the vice president was part of the extensive dish Cathie Martin served up yesterday when the former Cheney communications director took the stand in the perjury trial of former Cheney chief of staff I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby.
Flashed on the courtroom computer screens were her notes from 2004 about how Cheney could respond to allegations that the Bush administration had played fast and loose with evidence of Iraq's nuclear ambitions. Option 1: "MTP-VP," she wrote, then listed the pros and cons of a vice presidential appearance on the Sunday show. Under "pro," she wrote: "control message."
"I suggested we put the vice president on 'Meet the Press,' which was a tactic we often used," Martin testified. "It's our best format."
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Also, here's Russert lamenting his lack of access to government officials to ask them key questions:
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BILL MOYERS: Was it just a coincidence in your mind that Cheney came on your show and others went on the other Sunday shows, the very morning that that story appeared?
TIM RUSSERT: I don't know. The NEW YORK TIMES is a better judge of that than I am.
BILL MOYERS: No one tipped you that it was going to happen?
TIM RUSSERT: No, no. I mean-
BILL MOYERS: The Cheney office didn't leak to you that there's gonna be a big story?
TIM RUSSERT: No. No. I mean, I don't have the-- This is, you know-- on MEET THE PRESS, people come on and there are no ground rules. We can ask any question we want. I did not know about the aluminum tubes story until I read it in the NEW YORK TIMES.
BILL MOYERS: Critics point to September Eight, 2002 and to your show in particular, as the classic case of how the press and the government became inseparable. Someone in the Administration plants a dramatic story in the NEW YORK TIMES. And then the Vice President comes on your show and points to the NEW YORK TIMES. It's a circular, self-confirming leak.
TIM RUSSERT: I don't know how Judith Miller and Michael Gordon reported that story, who their sources were. It was a front-page story of the NEW YORK TIMES. When Secretary Rice and Vice President Cheney and others came up that Sunday morning on all the Sunday shows, they did exactly that.
My concern was, is that there were concerns expressed by other government officials. And to this day, I wish my phone had rung, or I had access to them.
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Russert's reputation as a tough questioner mostly came from the childish, useless "gotcha" questions he used to ask people: making them try to correctly pronounce the names of foreign leaders, ask them 5 countries that border some other country, or dragging up quotes from fifteen years prior to trip someone up, ask someone like John McCain if he remembered what he had for lunch a week ago (lol he's old) or introducing tabloidy stuff about spouses and other things that are essentially irrelevant to informing the audience and mostly existed to embarrass people and make his own news. This was actually a charge the right levied at him far more than the left. It just so happened they were, by and large, correct about it: namely that most of Russert's reputation as a "tough questioner" were due to the fact that he just liked to ask embarrassing questions, not anything actually enlightening to the audience. When it came to the real meat and potatoes of policy issues, or anything of actual import, he was largely a push-over and preferred to focus on Beltway gossipy stuff.
I'll grant that he was a good bit better than his peers, but that says more about his peers abject failures at journalism and asking tough questions to powerful people, not about Russert being any great cage-rattler.
Last edited by DVaut1; 06-17-2009 at 04:30 PM.
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06-17-2009, 04:32 PM
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#143
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centurion
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 155
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Re: ABCNEWS to promote Obamacare directly -- has it really gotten this bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
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This is an impressively loose inference.
Firstly, you are equivocating a "pro" in the notes of someone assisting Cheney with the words "control message" with -- in your words -- " ie, repeat talking points without challenge"
Cheney didn't show up on MTP and repeat talking points without challenge from Russert. I'm pretty sure I saw all of Russert's major interviews, particularly with high level Bush admins and I never saw one that had little or no challenge. Did I miss one where they could come on without pointed and challenging questions?
Again, if Russert were alive and were doing the interview, I'd be a lot more secure in the journalistic integrity of his approach. To be sure, he was moderate left, but that didn't prevent him from asking tough questions and follow up questions to both sides of the divide.
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06-17-2009, 04:41 PM
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#144
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centurion
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 155
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Re: ABCNEWS to promote Obamacare directly -- has it really gotten this bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
Russert's reputation as a tough questioner mostly came from the childish, useless "gotcha" questions he used to ask people: making them try to correctly pronounce the names of foreign leaders, ask them 5 countries that border some other country, or dragging up quotes from fifteen years prior to trip someone up, ask someone like John McCain if he remembered what he had for lunch a week ago (lol he's old) or introducing tabloidy stuff about spouses and other things that are essentially irrelevant to informing the audience and mostly existed to embarrass people and make his own news. This was actually a charge the right levied at him far more than the left. It just so happened they were, by and large, correct about it: namely that most of Russert's reputation as a "tough questioner" were due to the fact that he just liked to ask embarrassing questions, not anything actually enlightening to the audience. When it came to the real meat and potatoes of policy issues, or anything of actual import, he was largely a push-over and preferred to focus on Beltway gossipy stuff.
I'll grant that he was a good bit better than his peers, but that says more about his peers abject failures at journalism and asking tough questions to powerful people, not about Russert being any great cage-rattler.
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And therein is the irony. I actually don't disagree with much of what you say here, with the exception of degree. The bulk of his interview questions were definitely topical and relevant. Yes, he had his pet areas, but less so than his peers -- much like you put it.
That's why I wouldn't consider him a "perfect journalist" -- rather, one who I'd be more comfortable with, relatively speaking. Unlike many other journalists sympathetic to Obama, he would become a lot more familiar with the opposition's best standing arguments and try to levy them well.
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06-17-2009, 05:07 PM
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#145
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Itchycoo Park
Posts: 9,551
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Re: ABCNEWS to promote Obamacare directly -- has it really gotten this bad?
I've been away from my TV set for several days, so I guess I missed it.
Does anybody have links to transcripts or youtubes of these horribly biased shows from the White House about Obama's health care plan put on by ABC?
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06-17-2009, 05:22 PM
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#146
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Just a little southeast of Nome
Posts: 10,145
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Re: ABCNEWS to promote Obamacare directly -- has it really gotten this bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron81
What questions would everyone ask if you were participating in the town hall. Please keep in mind that if you were looking The One in the eye and not on the internet you'd probably want to observe a certain amount of decorum.
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Oh great and powerful Obamamesiah, how in your infinite wisdom do you foresee success with this program?
Ignoring for a moment that the idea itself is pathetically foolish and flys in the face of rational economic thinking. Our government has no successful programs in its resume, and Socialized medicine programs are overwhelming the budgets of countries with homogeneous citizenry who's populations are smaller than many of our large cities.
In short, how can you be a super genius and still advocate a plan that cannot and will not work ? Why do you hate us so much that you seem intent on bankrupting our country?
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06-17-2009, 06:29 PM
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#147
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,784
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Re: ABCNEWS to promote Obamacare directly -- has it really gotten this bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngusThermopyle
I've been away from my TV set for several days, so I guess I missed it.
Does anybody have links to transcripts or youtubes of these horribly biased shows from the White House about Obama's health care plan put on by ABC?
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Happy to help you out. Here are just a few quotes from ABC medical editor Timothy Johnson, who has been promoting government run health care in one form or another for many years.
To Hillary Clinton, promoting her health care plan in 1994, Tim Johnson said: "So at least from the physicians represented here, you get a 100 percent vote, including mine, for universal coverage."
In 1993, referring to the Clinton's health care proposals, Johnson said: "I say the Clintons are almost heroes in my mind for finally facing up to the terrible problems we have with our current health care system and bringing it to the attention of the public....Most people, I think, will be better off."
In 2007 Johnson had the chance to interview then Presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. He asked her about critics of her health care proposal: "Do you think the Republicans who are against it are immoral?" (I am guessing Johnson does).
Earlier this year, Tim Johnson aired these comments on health care in America: "I want to let everybody hear, and that is the national shame of how we spend more than twice as much, per person, on health care in his country as the average of all other industrialized countries, yet we're the only one that doesn't have universal coverage.”
Timothy Johnson has been an advocate for more government involvement in health care for many years on ABC.
I am sure White House Communications official Linda Douglass will be happy to have this air on ABC, her longtime employer before leaving objective journalism to work for Democrats. It will be interesting to hear the opinions of George Stephanopolous as well. Part of the ABC revolving door between Democratic partisans and "objective" reporters on their air.
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06-17-2009, 06:40 PM
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#148
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centurion
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 155
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Re: ABCNEWS to promote Obamacare directly -- has it really gotten this bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackWhite
Happy to help you out. Here are just a few quotes from ABC medical editor Timothy Johnson, who has been promoting government run health care in one form or another for many years.
To Hillary Clinton, promoting her health care plan in 1994, Tim Johnson said: "So at least from the physicians represented here, you get a 100 percent vote, including mine, for universal coverage."
In 1993, referring to the Clinton's health care proposals, Johnson said: "I say the Clintons are almost heroes in my mind for finally facing up to the terrible problems we have with our current health care system and bringing it to the attention of the public....Most people, I think, will be better off."
In 2007 Johnson had the chance to interview then Presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. He asked her about critics of her health care proposal: "Do you think the Republicans who are against it are immoral?" (I am guessing Johnson does).
Earlier this year, Tim Johnson aired these comments on health care in America: "I want to let everybody hear, and that is the national shame of how we spend more than twice as much, per person, on health care in his country as the average of all other industrialized countries, yet we're the only one that doesn't have universal coverage.”
Timothy Johnson has been an advocate for more government involvement in health care for many years on ABC.
I am sure White House Communications official Linda Douglass will be happy to have this air on ABC, her longtime employer before leaving objective journalism to work for Democrats. It will be interesting to hear the opinions of George Stephanopolous as well. Part of the ABC revolving door between Democratic partisans and "objective" reporters on their air.
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Wow.
I heard he had some "leanings" -- but nothing like that.
(Wait, I'm starting to get the pattern of this thread. I think I know what happens next...)
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06-17-2009, 07:41 PM
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#149
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centurion
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 155
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Re: ABCNEWS to promote Obamacare directly -- has it really gotten this bad?
Just in...
From USNews:
Quote:
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"It is unfortunate—and unusual—that ABC is refusing to accept paid advertising that would present an alternative viewpoint for the White House health care event. Health care is an issue that touches every American and all potential pieces of legislation have carried a price tag in excess of $1 trillion of taxpayers' money. The American people deserve a healthy, robust debate on this issue and ABC's decision—as of now—to exclude even paid advertisements that present an alternative view does a disservice to the public. Our organization is more than willing to purchase ad time on ABC to present an alternative viewpoint and our hope is that ABC will reconsider having such viewpoints be part of this crucial debate for the American people. We were surprised to hear that paid advertisements would not be accepted when we inquired and we would certainly be open to purchasing time if ABC would reconsider."
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Before taking this for its face value, I'm anxious to hear ABC's reason for this. (Assuming this is an accurate summary of ABC's action)
Off the top of my head, I can't think of this happing either. I don't know of any programming for a major network that refused paid advertising that opposed the subject matter.
I'm assuming there is a more salient reason, as this could only look bad for ABC's credibility if true.
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06-17-2009, 07:44 PM
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#150
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Trembling in fear of Ryan Beal
Posts: 27,704
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Re: ABCNEWS to promote Obamacare directly -- has it really gotten this bad?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackWhite
Happy to help you out. Here are just a few quotes from ABC medical editor Timothy Johnson, who has been promoting government run health care in one form or another for many years.
To Hillary Clinton, promoting her health care plan in 1994, Tim Johnson said: "So at least from the physicians represented here, you get a 100 percent vote, including mine, for universal coverage."
In 1993, referring to the Clinton's health care proposals, Johnson said: "I say the Clintons are almost heroes in my mind for finally facing up to the terrible problems we have with our current health care system and bringing it to the attention of the public....Most people, I think, will be better off."
In 2007 Johnson had the chance to interview then Presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. He asked her about critics of her health care proposal: "Do you think the Republicans who are against it are immoral?" (I am guessing Johnson does).
Earlier this year, Tim Johnson aired these comments on health care in America: "I want to let everybody hear, and that is the national shame of how we spend more than twice as much, per person, on health care in his country as the average of all other industrialized countries, yet we're the only one that doesn't have universal coverage.”
Timothy Johnson has been an advocate for more government involvement in health care for many years on ABC.
I am sure White House Communications official Linda Douglass will be happy to have this air on ABC, her longtime employer before leaving objective journalism to work for Democrats. It will be interesting to hear the opinions of George Stephanopolous as well. Part of the ABC revolving door between Democratic partisans and "objective" reporters on their air.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JrJr
Just in...
From USNews:
Before taking this for its face value, I'm anxious to hear ABC's reason for this. (Assuming this is an accurate summary of ABC's action)
Off the top of my head, I can't think of this happing either. I don't know of any programming for a major network that refused paid advertising that opposed the subject matter.
I'm assuming there is a more salient reason, as this could only look bad for ABC's credibility if true.
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STOP WITH THE HYSTERICS /dvaut1
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