I know back many years when americans had access to pinnacle, greek and the other sites, it was clearly yes and many of them especially when there were tons of opportunities like scalping and arbs that some people made their living just by doing that.Well ever since pinnacle left the usa, I know there aren't that many people who bet sports for a living online. And when thegreek/betjamaica left... thats like another big hit. I have read of people who got a pinny account but live in the usa by either opening an account in canada and use an agent or something like that.


Since right now the only books there are left for usa players are 5dimes, heritage and bookmaker pretty much... is there any anyone here in the usa who bets sports for a living online and dont bet in vegas? My thinking is... first off... it would be so hard to do this because for one... its a huge pain getting money online especially with the poor limits. Like for heritage/5dimes... the max one can deposit at once using western union is $2500 and they dont accept bank wire deposits. So how in the world do guys bet at least $1000 on a game since thats probably the minimum one should be betting if they are doing it as their sole source of income.


The other thing is 5dimes is a recreational book and so are many other books like betislands, bovada so pro sportsbettors are probably not playing there due to the small limits. So its just 5dimes, heritage and bookmaker. I do know that the only professional book available to americans is bookmaker. Now if someone who does it for a living bets only at these books, lets say they are very good and beat the books lines and gets very good numbers. I know for a fact 5dimes does limit you and i have heard heritage does as well. Bookmaker on the other hand i heard doesn't.


But is there anyone that actually bets sports online for a living and live in the USA and doesn't use pinnacle/greek? Because I would think it would be pretty damn hard. The reason i say this is if someone wants to get say $50000 or $100000 on 5dimes/heritage... is that even possible? Because i know they dont accept deposits higher than $2500 at once. Now withdraws is not the problem because i know they can send you a $3000 check once every week. But the issue here is funding an account. Does bookmaker allow people to deposit like $50000 at once using bank wire? The thing is if a max deposit is say $5000.... no one bets sports professionally with a $5000 bankroll because you can't make much money at all.


Now if you live in las vegas... then theres no problem because if someone has the cash, they can bet a few grand easily on games easily and collect right after you win. I mean, you have guys who bet sports online but many of these recreational people are those guys who deposit like $200, $500 or $1000 and hope to run it up but truth is these guys cannot make much money unless they hit a huge parlay or go on a huge lucky streak.


I hear people say if you want to bet sports for a living, either go to Canada to play on pinny or move to vegas. But those who are not in canada or vegas... and only bet on the offshore books available to americans... there probably is very little amount of people that do it for their sole income right? The thing is i feel like that number has to be less than 100 and thats because of the funding issue.

I wanted to change my title but I can't. But what my title should say is... how rare is it for an american to bet sports for a living offshore now at only the books allowed for american players and of course don't live in las vegas.

according to bookmakers website you can deposit up to a trillion dollars through bank wire so no problem with getting money on there

Are you serious about this? Anyone here can confirm this?


Because if this is true... then I would believe there would be quite some people that does it for a living in the usa then.

You must be new in the SB forum. I can name 5+ people off the top of m head that live in the US and bet offshore full-time...

Heck, rsigley lives in vegas and still makes a living betting offshore...

Do all those 5+ ppl you know off the top of your head have access to pinnacle/greek or do they bet only at american offshore books?

I live in Vegas half the time and Ventura half the time. I have bet over 50 games in the NBA playoffs in game with 10% or higher expected return via pinnacle line for 1 or 2 k a game. If you live in Vegas there are thousands in EV just waiting to be plucked. I have never used an offsite book. I have made 5 figures easy 3 years in a row. Just bring your iPad to binions and wait for the lines makers to balance there action and collect. Example i pad had Miami vrs Boston over 3 times in a game each time pinny had +110 the other way plus I got a point. I got over 170 -110 while piney had under 172 +110 middle to end of the third quarter.

Most people who bet high 4- or 5-figures at shops like CRIS, pinnacle, bookmaker etc. probably never use their post-up business anyways, but have a weekly credit line of XXX.XXX or even X.XXX.XXX USD and the balance (weekly winnings or losses) are settled by cash via agents in the city they're living in.

You also don't necessarily need to bet 4-figures to make a living, depending on the amount of bets and your edge you can "easily" win 50-60k by betting in the 400-800USD range.

Every time you make a thread I get happy. Your most amazing thread ever:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/92...ns-me-1187546/

Isn't CRIS the same as bookmaker? Yea i know you don't need to bet 4 figures and yes the 400-800 range can definitely be done but its a bit harder.

How does one find these agents? Can someone who say gives the cash up front do it this way since they have already shown the agent they have the money so they will pay? Because to me, I thought one couldn't even get more than 2500 at a time to an offshore book if you live in the usa unless you have say friends who will deposit 2500 for you under their name etc.

CRIS is part of bookmaker, yes. But it's doable to have accounts at both of them (credit or post-up).

Never needed/wanted an agent, who let me bet on credit at these outs, so can't exactly tell you how to find them. You probably need references/somebody to vouch for you and other stuff to get a credit line.
Once you get a credit account, I guess you could have your limit increased if you handed over cash first (as some form of leverage/security), the agent would have nothing to lose that way.

But you don't need to get any money offshore in that "business relationship", the whole concept is based on weekly cash settlements by runners/agents.
Shops like pinnacle, who appear to have shut down their business facing the US market, only cut the US from their post-up business. And I would guess their credit business is at least as big as the post-up side and there are still tons of US players betting at shops like pinnacle or CRIS on credit.
Also works perfectly for both sides: The highrollers betting on credit don't have to put up with the hassle of moving money offshore (back and forth) and the shop still gets their business, although it appears to the outer world (=DoJ and others) like they finally pulled out of the US market.

Soriano. How does one find these agents then if they have no connections? The thing is i dont mind giving someone the money to like fund an account... its just for offshore books like 5dimes... max i could deposit at once is 2500 which is very little. Yes i dont mind handing the cash first but i would obviously want that person to be legit.


The thing is if i bet between 500-1000 a game... I assume that would not be enough for me to get to bet with these agents?


I would assume that ppl who bet sports for a living in the usa and not live in vegas... all of them have bookmaker account right? I mean... it would be really impossible for someone to make 50k a year betting sports offshore and only use say heritage and 5dimes only? I know one guy here who bets sports as his sole income and he told me he only used 5dimes and heritage. The thing is i think it would be so hard to make that money and not get limited at some point especially at 5dimes... am i correct here or not? The reason is b/c 5dimes is a recreational book and not like bookmaker/greek.

Like if you win say 80k off of thegreek... surely they wouldn't care am i right? I feel like thegreek, bookmaker and pinnacle are the only ones that dont give a damn how much you win but books like 5dimes, heritage would limit you. But the guy i spoke to said the reason he didnt get limited or banned was b/c he never beat their closing lines and basically just caps so he never had that problem. But then i found out he got his account closed at 5dimes because he got in a dispute with Tony because his account got hacked and tony didn't believe it.

meh op, pretty sure people here know agents and such but if your a sharp or a winning bettor ,there is no incentive for an agent to get you an account. most agents work off net losses or at least the ones i know do.

You are incorrect in most of your assumptions.

It's very difficult to make a living betting sports. If you do, you don't need any of the books you listed.

I don't think anyone here can confirm that you can in fact wire one trillion dollars to Bookmaker. Sorry.

Boot... i know its extremely difficult to make a living betting sports. But for those who bet for a living inside the USA... where are they betting at if they are not betting at the books i listed. Are you talking about vegas then if you are not talking about these books? I have a feeling you are going to say they bet at pinnacle and get like a bank account there and bet from the usa. Is that where you are going here?


Well I don't mean if someone here can in fact wire one trillion dollars to bookmaker. I wanted someone to confirm if one can actually wire say 5 figures to bookmaker as i know books like 5dimes doesn't allow bank wire deposits and heritage only allows it but the max is $8000 or so. I just wanted to know if there are ppl who bet offshore for a living in the usa and dont have access to pinnacle... wouldn't it be such a pain just to get a big amount of money online? Like back last year, i got 12k into bovada but this was from depositing 1200 each time using moneygram and it was a huge pain.


Also BooT... i use to play online mid stakes sngs for a living before black friday. But thing was i never had to deposit a ton of money because i always had a big bankroll on my poker account compared to the amount of buyins i had for sngs. But like in the usa climate right now... its very hard to get money online at bovada, revolution poker and merge. Its like the max deposit is $1000 and that is pretty damn useless if someone wants to play say 1/2NL 6max and play 12 tables if you get what i mean.

Depends, even if he doesn't earn directly, it can make sense: By knowing your bets, he is able to tail your picks and bet them himself before the line moves (in case you f.e. consistently beat the closing line).
In principle the same reason why books like pinnacle don't kick you out if you're a winning player: They just use your bets to shade/sharpen/move their lines, especially if you bet into their opening lines (with lower overnight limits).

I think it would be awfully hard if not impossible to find one of these agents I described since they are extremely picky about their customers and without some sort of reference they won't hook you up because they have to fly/stay under the radar and would have no information, that would kind of "prove" to them, that you're legit and not some undercover police officer f.e.
Betting 500-1k would be enough though, but also depending on your overall volume (are we talking 20-30 bets per week or 2-3bets per month).

Not all have an account at bookmaker. I guess most do, just because of the higher limits and because one more out to bet into won't hurt. But in general they rarely offer the best odds.
Anybody who can get access to pinnacle, places a large percentage there. At least in the past matchbook was another important out. And then there are a bunch of smaller -105 outs, but once you start winning consistently and bet certain amounts, there are very few reliable sportsbooks left.
Also many people spread out there action at different shops instead of placing the whole amount at the same shop. This is especially effective if you have some "off-screen" outs because these adjust their odds slower when a game f.e. gets hit by a steam move. So you don't necessarily need 10k limits at one shop, to place a 5-figure wager on a certain game.

F.e. I used to bet at up to 30 different books, now it's down to (more or less) 6-8 and 90% of my bets are placed at pinnacle or ibcbet. In the long run you will be reduced to certain sportsbooks anyways because of closed accounts and/or limits or you decide to create fake accounts with all the risks that come with these....

Though if you want to deposit a large sum into a book like CRIS, I'd say your best bet would be calling them directly. Many of the (post-up) offshores, that still accept US players, have some payment options they don't openly advertise online (because if they did, it would just be a matter of time until they would be shut down by the DoJ) and they would probably be more than willing to find a solution with you on the phone.

Soriano thanks for your long detailed response.


As for betting 500-1000 a game... well yes it would be like 100-120 bets a month or so and not 2-3 bets per month.


Yes i know most sportsbettors have a ton of outs but negative about this is when money is spread at different books... then the balance at each isn't so big. Yes i'm well aware bookmaker has the worst odds out there but the great thing about them is that they take the highest limit bets in the usa from what i see. I mean, sure you can get 5k a game on an nfl game at 5dimes and heritage but if you do this in baseball and win a lot... well your reduced juice at 5dimes might be gone with those -105 lines even though the max one can bet is $500. But one can bet $500 repeatedly like after a few minutes at 5dimes with reduced juice so you could probably bet like $3000 on a total if i'm not mistaken on reduced juice or at i wrong here?


The other thing is don't you guys say for the usa player... its just so risky to have funds at a usa book now even like bookmaker, heritage and 5dimes? I know these are A books but theres always the risk of the government doing a full tilt poker thing or am i wrong here? The thing is i pretty much pulled out a ton of money from my 5dimes and bovada account mainly because of this reason. I had more than 1/2 my money to my name which i made from online poker and put it on 5dimes/bovada so i could bet bigger amounts but of course I'm scared of the fact that a full tilt situation would happen to these books. Or should i not be worried?

I'm just thinking like if you want to bet sports for 500-1000 a game or a bit more... just move to vegas instead? Would you agree on this as oppose to betting offshore? Now if i didnt live in the usa... obviously I would have nothing to worry about as people in canada and europe can easily access all sportsbetting sites like thegreek , pinnacle and those other sites like betfair and matchbook and never have to worry about the safety of their funds. And of course... how easy it is to deposit/withdraw funds and even the withdraw fees are either free or very little compared to the usa. I'm just thinking that for the usa offshore bettor who does it for a living... isn't it really hard to do it if you only betting offshore especially if you have no access to pinnacle. It seems like bookmaker is pretty much your only out since books like 5dimes/heritage would limit you at some point for winning too much?

i think getting a pinnacle account is your best bet if you are serious at all.

edit: find a canadian that will do it for you or just move to canada for 1-2 months ,get your accounts setup.
comeback to the states , use vpn ,easy game...
actually pinnacle doesnt even care if you login from an american ip

i wouldnt trust any of the books you listed , just go with pinny

maybe we could pool money and see if we can wire 1 trillion to them.

also fwiw i moved to vegas because i thought i could make a killing betting there but once they know you it's pretty impossible

they'll just refuse action or move the line before you bet. most of the big books just copy pinny now anyway and add extra juice.

i only go there to bet horse racing because of nice cash back + if you know what you're doing on the internet you'll get banned from every racebook so quick. also during big games (nfl playoffs, ncaab, world series, etc.) they usually put up hundreds of mispriced props (that you can see without even having to calculate if you've been doing it a while) and if its really busy they just accept your bet without checking with someone.

outside of that vegas is really a waste of time when you include traffic, gas, and the hassle and it usually leads to me wasting more time because i'll start checking for VP games that have +EV and then waste days trying to get the jackpot.

any time i go to the casino now i'm usually just getting food betting offshore on my laptop and playing the horses or VP

they will close your account

I think if u have an established account you can just say you were traveling or something.
I have a buddy that does it all the time, but he may be using a vpn which I doubt.
Either way, the op can still get a pinnny account

Gaining access to pinnacle is one thing, beating them is another

May i ask what specifically you were betting on where they started to know you and refuse you action? Like what sports specifically and was it just regular game or props?


What offshore outs do you use by the way and most importantly... is sportsbetting your only income or the majority of it? You say you play Video poker but i assume you make more sportsbetting offshore then vp?