wonder what's up with UFC? Mini little Tyson and they don't roll out the red carpet.


Some one has mental block problem meaning we don't get to see larkin fight on and hit his prime in the cage.

crazy man, guy is a jem and deserves, love watching him fight, maybe my fav fighter.

He was on $39k/$39k in his last fight with the UFC, and one assumes he would've been angling for a raise on his new contract.

His old deal was in the same ballpark as guys like Mizugaki, Rick Story and Cole Miller, who they also cut recently. They're somewhat expensive, but at the same time they're not really big enough to be anything more than the B-side of a match with a more popular fighter.

The fact Larkin's last UFC fight was only the Fight Pass "headliner" (on an admittedly stacked UFC202 card) says a lot. Especially since he was probably the promotional B-side to Neil Magny in that match.

My guess is they just thought he wasn't a big enough draw for what he was going to cost them. I'm not saying that's the right way of looking at it, but I can see the logic: there's plenty of guys out there who will do the same job promotionally for half that money.

The problem is they're cutting so many guys who may become a draw later - think Robbie Lawler for example, he was a B side guy for most of his career who became a champ and had two of the best title fights ever with Rory and Condit. They're going to wind up cutting someone who goes on to become a huge draw for Bellator/One/WSOF/etc sooner or later

i think alot of it is fighters not having realistic contract demands. they see Rousey, Lesnar, Diaz, Conor making big $ and every1 is shooting for the moon when it comes time for a new contract. like OzExorcist says, if u dont have the promotional pull they just wont give it to u

look at a guy like Bader, he's top5 and a well known name but doesnt draw. ufc didnt hesitate to let him go

Just rewatched Rumble vs DC

Rumble actually did better than I remember, won multiple standup exchanges and it was hardish for DC to take him down until r2.

It's still going to be DC by Submission (likely in r2-3) or Rumble wins by KO in r1-2 I think or maybe even DC wins in r3/4 if the price is long enough

Going to wait for round + method props on b365 and hope one of them is hugely off market. There could be a bunch of value in DC Sub r2/3 or some Rumble KO props

My recollection was that DC won by sub in r2 not 3, so was good to rewatch it

The WME-IMG management bean counters are cutting all these mid-tier UFC fighters because they are angling to hit a certain target number to qualify for a huge eight figure bonus in less than a year all dependent on increasing profits. Cutting costs is a great way to increase profits. It's madness to let an artificial short term incentive like this change the course of the business this way by enriching the new management and servicing the gigantic debt at the potential expense of the long term health of the company, but that's the reality.

Same issue Amaya has had with Stars, looking at quarterly numbers but implementing policies that cause the game to decline in the mid to long term hurting the overall value of their company in the long term to artificially boost share prices in the short term.

If the UFC manages to die, another promotion will rise to take it's place, I doubt it though it would have to be seriously mismanaged

it is kind of funny all the parallels between the WME-IMG/UFC and Amaya/PokerStars acquisitions

Thing is, if they cut too many medium guys, the promotional up and comers won't have anyone to build their record off. Lorenz Larkin, at worst he would be a really good addition to someones record.
If the division is weak, aka they cut out the "middle class" and we're only left with a few elite fighters and a bunch of amateurs, it will be hard to distinguish the elite fighters in the end since all they will be fighting is amateurs and will sooner or later get exposed.
Do they want to be premier league (plenty of good teams), or do they want to be la liga (a few elite teams)?

Yeah agree on all the above, cutting out all the mid-tier fighters isn't likely to be a smart move in the long term.

With some of the guys like Rick Story and Mizugaki I guess they're dealing with known quantities, in that they can be pretty certain those guys have gone as far as they're going to go (in both a sporting and promotional context). But not having those guys there for the up and comers to beat will hurt them down the road. Gatekeepers are important too :P

...as are competitive fights and the idea that the UFC is supposedly home to elite fighters.

Cutting out the 'middle tier' fighters is insane considering the number of shows/events they have. In the hunt for profit margins/immediate returns, they will slowly erode the quality of UFC. Damn those beancounters at WME/IMG.

If Bellator wasnn't mostly just in casinos and being a weirdly edited highlights show on Spike (for MMA fans in the UK, that's all it is!) then they would be a very credible alternative to UFC.

Bellator really should buck up their ideas in terms of broadcasting and marketing themselves considering the influx of talent coming their way thanks to those jumping ship from UFC.

On a non-US stage, I have no idea what a WSOF show looks like...I don't think there's a UK TV channel that airs it!

Interesting that Rumble is now the favourite on 5dimes.

Hopefully the RIZIN grows alongside Bellator and gives fighters better options. One FC does pretty decent in Asia but they don't really get much attention in the west.

Shame they let go of Larkin and Horiguchi I think both have a tonne of potential. Think Horiguchi will be better off in Rizin as they can really position him as there main Japanese star in that organisation.

Sounds logical, Rumble likely to gas, so r1/2 for ko is obvious. DC looking to avoid the storm of r1/2 so 3/4 for the sub. You think Rumble might gameplan accordingly and prepare for a 5 rounder, holding back and pacing himself for the entire fight? You think he can outpoint DC?

Not saying that it's the right path to victory for Rumble but it's 5 rounds and I think his corner knowss that if he does his usual stuff and he does not ko DC in the first 2 then that's it he ain ever winning 5 rounds, in fact if he does not pace himself he is never going 5 rounds.

This fight will almost certainly end inside the distance if Rumble shows up trying to KO DC in the first 2.

how any one can call Lorenz Larkin a b side fighter is not comprehendible to me.

To be clear, I was talking purely in a promotional sense. As in the only way he was ever going to get a spot in a main event or even a co-main event was as the "B-side", on the back of fighting someone much more popular than him.

Hell, he needed Neil Magny across the cage just to get a Fight Pass "main event"...

He could have main evented a Fox card fighting, say, Robbie Lawler for example. But it only would've been the main event because of Lawler. He fights someone like Masvidal and it goes back to being just another fight towards the bottom of a six-fight main card.

Kinda like Dennis Siver fought in a main event once, but nobody thinks for a second that Siver was the reason it was the main event :P

Yeah I don't even know where we're supposed to watch Bellator in Australia these days - they were on free-to-air for a while back in the Rebney era (and IIRC it was mostly old repeats, not live or even current stuff), no idea where to see it now.

As for the influx of talent, there's no arguing that some of the guys they're picking up are talented fighters, but promotionally they haven't really managed to sign away many big names yet. Guys like Rory, Phil Davis and Bader are all solid but they don't exactly move the needle. Washed up ex-UFC guys like Shamrock, Gracie and obviously Tito did better business for them, but the UFC was never going to let them fight again anyway.

Their biggest coup to date in terms of relevant young fighters might have been Benson Henderson. He was a guy who was regularly headlining for the UFC when he jumped ship. But he hasn't exactly performed in the cage for them since joining...

i would categorize Larkin differently. i think ufc missed an opportunity w him. even tho not a big name yet, he had a fan friendly style and could have been built up to a Cerrone type fighter who even if he never wins a championship always puts on entertaining fights that the fans love

I'm actually on board with them letting the Fitch/Shields/Rosholt type gatekeepers who have had their shot at the elite of the division and failed go as they can derail prospects and their fights are boring but they 100% should not let exciting gatekeepers like Larkin go, he can easily main event fight night cards against the right type of opponent or be a PPV main card fight that will deliver and that should be enough to justify a 60k+60k contract or whatever he was asking for as a raise from 39+39. Larkin hasn't had a boring fight since what, 2013/4? The last one I can remember was Carmont in 2013, not sure if Camozzi or any of the other ones that went to decision since were bad.

Jared Rosholt on the other hand adds NO value to the company at all and isn't worth 30+30 even though HW is thin and he's top 25 because nobody ever wants to watch his fights because they suck. Boring fighters should by all means be 'allowed' to stay in the UFC but only if they're winning and working their way up the ladder, I do think cutting someone off 1 loss is too harsh but 2 losses by all means if they're a boring fighter, exciting guys shouldn't be getting cut until the 5th loss and give them a favourable matchup after 3 or so. At the end of the day it's a business and i'm going to pay to watch Condit fight Lawler over watching Shields fight Fitch even though the latter two (in their primes anyway) were legit contenders. Grapplers like Demian Maia, Gunnar Nelson and Charles Oliveira are exciting because they're constantly trying to make things happen on the ground and those guys should be treated the same way exciting high level strikers are because their fights are great. Guys who LnP or Wall and Stall in almost every fight should get the boot as soon as they start losing.

Yeah I don't think anybody shed any tears the day they cut Rosholt. Most entertainment he provided was when they didn't even bother to interview him after the Struve fight :P

I find Elias Theodoru as boring as watching paint dry.

He's not the most exciting fighter but I guess he has 2 finishes in his 5 wins and has being good looking and Canadian going for him which helps with marketability. It's not like post-Serra GSP was the most exciting fighter either but he became a draw and i'm actually looking forward to his return

Got a couple units on Weidman at +104 so far got an offer up on matchbook to get a few more, going to build a pretty decent position there as I think he's a moderate favourite against Mousasi.

Hoping for Usman -200 or better one time.

Hope that's the case, I'll happily risk a few units on Sean if I can get him at +150 or better.

Don't think Usman deserves to be -200.

usman is a tank, Strickland is not a bad fighter but I think Usman is a very bad matchup for him I would be surprised if usman will be -200, I expect more something unbettable like -350

Happy to book some splitting the difference and calling it -175/+175 if you want since i'm happy with -200 and you're happy with +150 so we'd both be getting a price we're very happy with. Can settle via stars/pp/whatever after the fight. Have booked plenty of action in thread for Sect7G/Elliot10181/Dekid and others with no issues.

Happy to risk up to 525 vs your 300 or any smaller portion of that, quote within next 24 hrs to book if you want

Line could open anywhere from -140/+120 to -350/+280 or similar and I wouldn't be shocked like I expected Elkins to be +200 and he wound up being +5xx by close so who knows where the opener is

Also just a side note, theporkchop still owes me that $70 from about a year ago for the bet I made for him and hasn't been in contact or responded to my PMs for quite some time and prior to that had basically just said he's broke and will pay me when he can, I offered him a $1/week payment plan (lol) and no interest so nobody should make bets or deal financially with him in any context until he pays what he owes even though the sum in question is trivial.