Originally Posted by clowntable
It doesn't matter if people can do EV calcs as long as enough people don't do it because they are too lazy or "don't like math". That's the whole reason why doing it is profitable, because relative to the field you'll be ahead.
Angelo's reciprocality and all.
Assumptions are math in my opinions.
I think Bilbo's point is that you can do all of the EV calcs you want, but if you have incorrect ranges plugged in then they will essentially be useless. Obviously there is some degree of math in developing ranges(combinatorics) but the majority of it is making logical decisions based on what you expect your opponent to due with all of the different parts of their range.
My take on flatting 4 bets 100bbs deep. Terrible OOP with just about all hands. IP you can flat strong hands with the right dynamic(you think the opponent is going to monkey in $ just about all the time with his air hands that he would fold to your shove PF) but flatting weak speculative hands is completely burning $. If you think your opponent is FOS enough to try and flat 86s, you might as well just jam expecting a lot of FE. The hands flops way too terribly in a situation where the SPR is going to be like 1:1.5
200+ BBs deep you can flat a lot more 4 bets and that can get really fun because a 4 bet pot 200+ BBs deep essentially plays like a 3 bet pot 100bbs deep so you have a little more maneuverability.