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Old 05-25-2012, 07:45 AM   #1
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what's the worst hand you call with? part 2

Another hand where i'm wondering about the bottom of my callingrange

villain is a reg, not much history
he's playing 20/17, 3b 4% over 200 hands
50% ftcb, raise cbet 33% (1/3)

my image should be somewhat like 26/20, cbet 60%

I'm not sure what to make up from his sizing.
It kinda looks like he wants to maximize fe by the river but I have a hard time calling down with most of my range

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $2(BB) Replayer
SB ($201)
BB ($209)
UTG ($403)
Hero ($203)
BTN ($247)

Dealt to Hero [XX]

fold, Hero raises to $6, fold, SB calls $5, fold

FLOP ($14) 4 5 4

SB checks, Hero bets $8, SB raises to $24, Hero calls $16

TURN ($62) 4 5 4 T

SB bets $32, Hero calls $32

RIVER ($126) 4 5 4 T 3

SB bets $139 (AI), Hero ??

thoughts appreciated
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:26 PM   #2
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He 3bet only 4% and he call only 3%. So it seems to me that his range is quite narrow, and given the action and the kind of player it seems to me that there is a good chance he holds TT. I will believe his strenght till he doesn't give me a reason to stop...
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Old 05-26-2012, 04:57 AM   #3
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Re: what's the worst hand you call with? part 2

he`s only reping TT(which he will 3b some % even with 4% 3b over 200 hands, also he might not c/r TT 100% on 445r), some backdoorflushes.
44,55,67s are really bad calls from the SB vs an CO-open without reads/stats (and I`m pretty sure a 20/17 folds those).
his turnbet is kind of small, why wouldn`t he bet an amount that leaves him w like .8psb or less on the river?
I`m probably calling the river w every hand that I`m calling the turn with.

btw what is your wtsd%-stat?
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Old 05-26-2012, 07:56 AM   #4
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Re: what's the worst hand you call with? part 2

why are 44 55 bad calls SB vs unknown CO?
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:12 AM   #5
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Re: what's the worst hand you call with? part 2

Spoiler:
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Old 05-26-2012, 11:32 AM   #6
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Re: what's the worst hand you call with? part 2

I'd probably need at least a 4 here to call unless you know that they could be flatting JJ+ in which case I might include AA/ maybe KK. It's tricky as they're not repping much at all on that flop which is why you'll rarely see players run a bluff here.
If we're calling JJ/QQ here then in theory we should be calling AK too.
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Old 05-26-2012, 03:41 PM   #7
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Re: what's the worst hand you call with? part 2

I'd call if I have flush or boat on river.
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Old 05-26-2012, 03:54 PM   #8
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Re: what's the worst hand you call with? part 2

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Originally Posted by CombatCarl View Post
I'd call if I have flush or boat on river.
Agreed, feels like villain has a boat or flush
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:51 AM   #9
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Re: what's the worst hand you call with? part 2

Kind of silly to name a general (or gto) calling range here otr, cause it's (obviously) soo player dependant. Vs some it would be boats+(should prob fold qq- otf vs those), vs others u can prob call ak+ otr.
Maybe u could generalize kk+ cause villain might take this line w jj/qq some of the time. Then again his sizing on turn/river doesn't really make much sense, so that can tighten or loosin' up ur calling range otr depending how u interpret that.
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:02 PM   #10
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Re: what's the worst hand you call with? part 2

flush
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:13 PM   #11
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Re: what's the worst hand you call with? part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishie Nutz View Post
Agreed, feels like villain has a boat or flush
If villain has a flush, that kind of goes against what little info we have about him. What two spades is a guy who rarely 3bets c/ring the flop with?

Think he shows up with a boat only here. I don't know if I'm disciplined enough to fold the nut flush here, but objectively I think we should only be calling with a boat ourselves.
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:41 PM   #12
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Re: what's the worst hand you call with? part 2

He may be have A5 spades, would explain while he only called preflop and checked initially to see the reaction from table. $139 on the river seems like an overbet. I'm not calling unless I have flush or boat.
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:18 PM   #13
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Re: what's the worst hand you call with? part 2

How many flushes do either of us have?

This is a board that we're perceived to cbet wide and not have many hands to proceed with vs a x/r. Some regs won't bet the turn/river once we call; some will always slowplay the flop; others won't believe that we'll be able to call often enough due to their/our image and will barrel more liberally. Our calling range should change accordingly.
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Old 05-29-2012, 05:29 AM   #14
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Re: what's the worst hand you call with? part 2

Well 22 = A4 here
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Old 05-29-2012, 06:01 AM   #15
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Re: what's the worst hand you call with? part 2

no because then he can't have 44, and less likely he has one of the few combos of random stuff he might have randomly decided to flat pre with like a4s 45s (none of these are likely but total 0.5-1 combos is maybe reasonable)

dunno what to call but some regs will sometimes play tt and slowplayed overs like this. also obv quads and 55. a few random bdfds and 76s if he sometimes flats it pre.
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